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Featured The watchmaker

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Disciple of Jesus, Jul 9, 2018.

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  1. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Meandering through...

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    You find a watch on a deserted beach. You pick it up, and notice all the intricate parts. That's an interesting watch...
     
  2. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    When you find watches breeding and having baby watches come back and start a thread. Until then this idea is thoroughly debunked.
     
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  3. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Well-Known Member

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    You assume the watch must be designed. However, you walk a little further inland and, in the middle of a forest, you find a tree from which hundreds of watches appear to be sprouting like flowers. Now what do you think?
     
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  4. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Meandering through...

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    I think you need a better argument.
     
  5. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    The tree must have evolved from a Ford Escort?
     
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  6. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    I can only assume you were interrupted or distracted when you posted this because it seems incomplete. You’ve not actually presented anything to discuss or debate. We could guess that you’d intended to discuss the Watchmaker Analogy but give that’s been argued back and forth for many years by better people than any of us to no definitive conclusion, unless you’ve somehow come up with a new aspect to it, which seems unlikely, I really don’t see the point. What would it achieve?
     
  7. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Well-Known Member

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    It's a simple question. If you saw watches growing on a tree, would you assume they were designed or arose naturally?
     
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  8. ERLOS

    ERLOS God Feeds the Ravens

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    If I saw watches growing on a tree I'd be on some powerful chemical, lol.
     
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  9. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    This might help. The people that make watches...

     
  10. godnotgod

    godnotgod Thou art That

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    The Watchmaker is a flawed proposition to show that, like the watch which has a maker, the world too must also have a maker. Watches are artifacts that ARE made by an external agent. They are mechanisms. The world is not made; it is grown and evolved from the inside out. It is conscious and alive, just as you are conscious and alive. You are not separate from the Universe; the Universe is not separate from you. The Universe is not a machine. It is an evolving organic manifestation of Pure Abstract Intellilgence, Unborn, Unmade, Uncaused, playing itself as 'The Universe'.
     
    #10 godnotgod, Jul 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
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  11. godnotgod

    godnotgod Thou art That

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    6c24cb39dfeffb8bc57979edc44d18d7.jpg
     
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  12. Electra

    Electra l'attendue

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    spawn of Cronos
     
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  13. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    Another point is we already know who makes watches beforehand. The source is empirically established.

    That cannot be said for a deity. Much less a deity making watches and leaving them in abandoned areas for naive people to come across and wonder who made it?

    If I came across a watch in an abandoned or remote area, I'd probably look for the owner first if possible or say it's my lucky day, I found a cool watch!

    Not wondering if it grew there something. Duh!! :0b
     
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  14. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    You really need to understand why the analogy contains a watch in the first place. You choose something we humans have experience with as having been created/crafted. However, your expectation is that God created everything. Even the sand on the beach. So why is the sand any less miraculous to find than the watch?

    Also, no material in the watch is of man's making. All materials that can possibly exist would only be able to exist through God allowing them to exist in your opinion, right? Since you believe He authored all of creation, then, for example, "plastic" was made possible through God's will on the matter of what happens when particular elements are brought together into complex molecules. So, all man has done when he made the watch was to arrange God's creations (the elements and compounds) into very specific configurations. Isn't it still far more miraculous to be able to dictate the materials that exist in the universe? Why all this focus on a relatively mundane/boring watch?!
     
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  15. ERLOS

    ERLOS God Feeds the Ravens

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    Screenshot_20180707-220728.png
     
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  16. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
    Staff Member Premium Member

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    ... and you notice it stands out from the background of the undesigned beach.

    You do agree the beach wasn't designed, right?
     
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  17. ERLOS

    ERLOS God Feeds the Ravens

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    Oh, such a superior intellect ...
     
  18. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Meandering through...

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    Stands out from the beach, yes. I believe the beach is designed, yes, can you guess why?
     
  19. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Meandering through...

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    Did you not read the premise, or something?
     
  20. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Well-Known Member

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    Why would the watch stand out as a designed thing on a beach full of designed things?
     
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