The walls of Jericho.

[Brian2]

Well, Brian had brought up 1400 BCE and 1200 BCE:

​

So I had focused my attentions around these dates, regarding to the invasion of Canaan and to Jericho (book of Joshua).

My points to Brian, there are flaws in both dates, because Egypt, and the Mitanni (15th century) and the Hittites (13th century) were vying over Canaan and Syria at these times.

The Israelite presence in 15th century BCE history, is zero, while the later century (13th), we only have the Merneptah Stele.

In both of these separate centuries, Egypt was in control at Canaan and part of Syria.

Mostly we only have records from Egypt and Hittite empire, and lesser so with the Mitanni with the history of Canaan in the second half of the 2nd millennium BCE.

While there are abundance of clay tablets (written in Canaanite cuneiform, none were written in proto-Canaanite alphabets) found in Megiddo’s archive, they of little uses pertaining to the history of Canaan.

There are not much in ways of literature in Bronze Age Canaan that can verify what the Iron Age Hebrew scriptures say in this earlier period.

Just something you might be interested in. It seems to affirm the story of Joshua building altars to read the curses of God and the blessings of God. The find comes from about 1400 BC and has written confirmation of what the Pentateuch says. It shows that Israel was more literate than assumed and that the Pentateuch was not a produce necessarily of the Exile or Post Exile period.

 

[Brian2]

Brian2:

Abraham lived on a short time in Egypt, Genesis 12, but if Abraham had spent time with the king, then shouldn’t the king’s name be known in Genesis?

He lived only a short time in Canaan, before he got involved in the war with kings (Genesis 14), in which 8 of the 9 kings were given names.

Names that we cannot verify.

What really puzzles me is why would the kings of Shinar (Babylonia, today’s Iraq) and Elam (western Iran) be involved in a war at the Dead Sea.

Elam may have military and diplomacy with Babylonia during the 2nd millennium BCE, they have never had control of Syria or of Canaan.

Now, while Ian no expert in Elamite history, I highly doubt there was any king named Chedorlaomer.

On the other hand, I do know there are list of kings of Babylonia (the biblical Shinar), there are no king named Amraphel in Babylonia. The 1st dynasty of Babylon were Amorite rulers, the most famous being Hammurabi.

Anyway, how can Genesis 14 have named 8 of the 9 kings, but could not name the king of Egypt, who ruled at the time of Abraham or the one who ruled Egypt at the time of Joseph, when Joseph was the second most powerful man in Egypt?

I don't know why the Kings of Egypt were not named and I cannot explain the other things you mention.
It is of course things like this which have led people to claim the Bible is full of myths in this early time period. Whether that is true is not known however.

 

[gnostic]

I don't know why the Kings of Egypt were not named and I cannot explain the other things you mention.
It is of course things like this which have led people to claim the Bible is full of myths in this early time period. Whether that is true is not known however.

I think the authors didn’t mention any names in Egypt from both Genesis and exodus because neither books were written “contemporary” to the Late Bronze Egypt, particularly to the 18th dynasty, in which Exodus took place in Egypt, a kingdom Moses was born to, and in which he was raised as adopted son of Egyptian princess, who was unnamed (Exodus 2). The pharaoh himself was unnamed.

This tell me, Genesis and Exodus, have never existed in the Late Bronze Age, therefore didn’t know enough about Egypt’s history to know historical pharaohs and didn’t know the dynasties.

Based on 1 Kings 6:1, it can be calculated that exodus took place in 1447 BCE (Exodus 12:37), therefore Moses would have been born in 1527 BCE (Exodus 2) and died in 1407 BCE.

1527 BCE would have been the reign of Ahmose I (c 1550 - 1525 BCE).

1447 BCE would have been the reign of Thutmose III (1479 - 1425 BCE).

And 1407 BCE would have been in the reign of Amenhotep II (1427 - 1401 BCE).​

Ahmose I was famous, not only because he was king who started the 18th dynasty, he was also the king who responsible for driving out the Hyksos that ruled Lower Egypt (15th dynasty).

Khamudi was the last Hyksos king of the 15th dynasty. We don’t know when Khamudi‘s reign began, but from one papyrus - the Rhind Mathematical Papyrus, dated to the 33rd year of Apepi II (or Apophis as he is known in Greek, was a Hyksos king).

Additional text in this papyrus, included the “11-year reign” of unnamed king, which archaeologists assumed to be Khamudi, since the king list known as the Turin Royal Canon (Turin King List, written either in the reign of Seti I or that of his son Ramesses II, 19th dynasty), place Khamudi’s reign between Apepi II and Ahmose I.

Avaris must have fallen either in 1532 or 1531 BCE, and Khamudi’s reign ended, hence Ahmose ruled unified Egypt from this date, when Ahmose conquered Lower Egypt.

 

[Brian2]

I think the authors didn’t mention any names in Egypt from both Genesis and exodus because neither books were written “contemporary” to the Late Bronze Egypt, particularly to the 18th dynasty, in which Exodus took place in Egypt, a kingdom Moses was born to, and in which he was raised as adopted son of Egyptian princess, who was unnamed (Exodus 2). The pharaoh himself was unnamed.

This tell me, Genesis and Exodus, have never existed in the Late Bronze Age, therefore didn’t know enough about Egypt’s history to know historical pharaohs and didn’t know the dynasties.

Based on 1 Kings 6:1, it can be calculated that exodus took place in 1447 BCE (Exodus 12:37), therefore Moses would have been born in 1527 BCE (Exodus 2) and died in 1407 BCE.

1527 BCE would have been the reign of Ahmose I (c 1550 - 1525 BCE).

1447 BCE would have been the reign of Thutmose III (1479 - 1425 BCE).

And 1407 BCE would have been in the reign of Amenhotep II (1427 - 1401 BCE).​

Ahmose I was famous, not only because he was king who started the 18th dynasty, he was also the king who responsible for driving out the Hyksos that ruled Lower Egypt (15th dynasty).

Khamudi was the last Hyksos king of the 15th dynasty. We don’t know when Khamudi‘s reign began, but from one papyrus - the Rhind Mathematical Papyrus, dated to the 33rd year of Apepi II (or Apophis as he is known in Greek, was a Hyksos king).

Additional text in this papyrus, included the “11-year reign” of unnamed king, which archaeologists assumed to be Khamudi, since the king list known as the Turin Royal Canon (Turin King List, written either in the reign of Seti I or that of his son Ramesses II, 19th dynasty), place Khamudi’s reign between Apepi II and Ahmose I.

Avaris must have fallen either in 1532 or 1531 BCE, and Khamudi’s reign ended, hence Ahmose ruled unified Egypt from this date, when Ahmose conquered Lower Egypt.

I think there would have to be a adjustments to the Egyptian chronology for the Hyksos in Avaris to fit with the find of evidence for Israel underneath Avaris. So the Hyksos would have come to north Egypt after Israel left in 15th century.