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Featured The vatican chants regarding lucifer

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Ubon, Sep 10, 2017.

  1. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Quadrepedal Schlumphing
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    He has a web site started eight months ago. According to cutestat: "trueexorcist.com is 8 months 1 day old. It has a global traffic rank of #18,891,230 in the world. It is a domain having .com extension. This website is estimated worth of $ 8.95 and have a daily income of around $ 0.15." I guess that is a beginning.

    Jack Ashcraft His entry in Ghost Adventures.

    Criticism by his daughter This is not good coming from his own kid. You would think that a successful exorcist would have to be better than that.

    Of course that is a choice to transliterate 'Satan' instead of translating it which hides the meaning unfortunately from readers. It ought to have a footnote that points out the word is not translated. It is a reason not to like the ESV.
     
  2. Sanzbir

    Sanzbir Well-Known Member

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    Hey, I saw a video that perfectly explains the video you saw. It literally explains everything and leaves no room for doubt about the subject and why you are mistaken. :p :D
     
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  3. Curious Cosby

    Curious Cosby New Member

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    Isaiah 14:12King James Version (KJV)
    12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!



    English Standard Version
    “How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!

    New American Standard Bible
    "How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!

    King James Bible
    How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    Shining morning star, how you have fallen from the heavens! You destroyer of nations, you have been cut down to the ground.

    International Standard Version
    "How you have fallen from heaven, Day Star, son of the Dawn! How you have been thrown down to earth, you who laid low the nation!

    NET Bible
    Look how you have fallen from the sky, O shining one, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the ground, O conqueror of the nations!

    New Heart English Bible
    How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn. How you are cut down to the ground, who laid the nations low.

    GOD'S WORD® Translation
    How you have fallen from heaven, you morning star, son of the dawn! How you have been cut down to the ground, you conqueror of nations!

    JPS Tanakh 1917
    How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, That didst cast lots over the nations!

    New American Standard 1977
    “How you have fallen from heaven,
    O star of the morning, son of the dawn!
    You have been cut down to the earth,
    You who have weakened the nations!

    Jubilee Bible 2000
    How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, who didst claim the Gentiles as an inheritance!

    King James 2000 Bible
    How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how are you cut down to the ground, who did weaken the nations!

    American King James Version
    How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how are you cut down to the ground, which did weaken the nations!

    American Standard Version
    How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, that didst lay low the nations!

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations?

    Darby Bible Translation
    How art thou fallen from heaven, Lucifer, son of the morning! Thou art cut down to the ground, that didst prostrate the nations!

    English Revised Version
    How art thou fallen from heaven, O day star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst lay low the nations!

    Webster's Bible Translation
    How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

    World English Bible
    How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, who laid the nations low!

    Young's Literal Translation
    How hast thou fallen from the heavens, O shining one, son of the dawn! Thou hast been cut down to earth, O weakener of nations.
    Study Bible
    Triumphant Exultation over Babel
    …11Your pomp and the music of your harps Have been brought down to Sheol; Maggots are spread out as your bed beneath you And worms are your covering.' 12"How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations! 13"But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north.…
    New American Standard Bible
    Cross References
    Luke 10:18
    So He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

    2 Peter 1:19
    We also have the message of the prophets, which has been confirmed beyond doubt. And you will do well to pay attention to this message, as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

    Revelation 2:28
    And I will give him the morning star.

    Revelation 8:10
    Then the third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star burning like a torch fell from heaven and landed on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water.

    Revelation 9:1
    Then the fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from heaven to earth, and it was given the key to the pit of the abyss.

    Revelation 22:16
    "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright Morning Star."

    Isaiah 34:4
    And all the host of heaven will wear away, And the sky will be rolled up like a scroll; All their hosts will also wither away As a leaf withers from the vine, Or as one withers from the fig tree.

    Jeremiah 51:53
    "Though Babylon should ascend to the heavens, And though she should fortify her lofty stronghold, From Me destroyers will come to her," declares the LORD.

    Lamentations 2:1
    How the Lord has covered the daughter of Zion With a cloud in His anger! He has cast from heaven to earth The glory of Israel, And has not remembered His footstool In the day of His anger.

    Ezekiel 26:17
    "They will take up a lamentation over you and say to you, 'How you have perished, O inhabited one, From the seas, O renowned city, Which was mighty on the sea, She and her inhabitants, Who imposed her terror On all her inhabitants!
    Treasury of Scripture
    How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how are you cut down to the ground, which did weaken the nations!

    how art thou fallen

    Isaiah 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not …

    Isaiah 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall …

    Ezekiel 28:13-17 You have been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was …

    Luke 10:18 And he said to them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

    2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down …

    Revelation 12:7-10 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against …

    Lucifer. or, day-star

    Also, I do not speak to the character of any Catholic priest. Only that they in fact do not follow the new Orthodox teachings.
     
  4. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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  5. Curious Cosby

    Curious Cosby New Member

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    I find splitting hairs to be of little use regarding God's Word. Even experts will disagree on translation, and I'm a no expert. Rather than battle over the Word, we should be compelled to let the Word fight our battles.

    I do enjoy word study as a means of uncovering hidden knowledge, though not to be mistaken for creating fruitless entanglements.
     
  6. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
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    This is the kind of tin foil hat bs that threads like this promote. :facepalm:
     
  7. Curious Cosby

    Curious Cosby New Member

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    Et ducit mundum per lucem?

    I prefer Per Aspera Ad Astra, but you can be led through the light by anyone you wish. I believe in sound doctrine and prayerful discernment of scripture. If wearing a tinfoil hat kept me on track with God's commandments then I'd do it. Fortunately I don't need it. I hate hats.
     
  8. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
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    That's nice. If you want to be believe in conspiracy theories pushed by cranks, then be as credulous as you please.
     
  9. Curious Cosby

    Curious Cosby New Member

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    Proverbs 18:2
    A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.

    I would have responded sooner, but I had to look up "credulous."
     
  10. Ubon

    Ubon Member

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    What part was i mistaken about exactly
     
  11. Ubon

    Ubon Member

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    Which is why i asked for an explanation and got one, did you miss that part.
     
  12. Ubon

    Ubon Member

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    Such as the book of enoch amongst others, editing the Bible is an old practice
     
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  13. madeofsage

    madeofsage New Member

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    Lucifer is a title, not a name. Many different figures have gone by it, including Jesus himself.
     
  14. Curious Cosby

    Curious Cosby New Member

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    I have known Satan to be a title because I've seen the word used in plural form in several writings, but if Lucifer is in fact used as a title, even in reference to Christ, I would be very interested if you could expound on that.

    I am aware of Latin derivations of the word Light, such as Lucem, Lumen, Lucidus, and Lucerna, as well as one literal translation for Star in fact being Lucifer, but I know nothing of it being used as a "title" other than in the reference to morning star.

    We should not, however, hold any translations of biblical words from Latin as any kind of truth. No more than English or Russian translations anyway, since none are the original three languages the Bible was written in. If your information is not regarding Latin use in any way I would be very eager to learn what you have found.
     
  15. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    Lucifer is a Latin word. Anyone using it is basing the word on the Latin bible.
     
  16. Curious Cosby

    Curious Cosby New Member

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    Thank you for pointing that out as it makes it obvious I was clearly missing the point I wished to make.

    "Helel" is the Hebrew word used in Isaiah and has a translation of "light bearer" and "shining one."

    "Phosphoros" is the Greek word used in Revelation and means both "bringer of light", and "morning star."

    Lucifer as an adjective can mean "bringer of light" and "morning star" as a noun. It seems understandable when translating both these passages to Latin, this word was used in both places.
     
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  17. Sanzbir

    Sanzbir Well-Known Member

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    Man you'll just have to watch the video I found. As I said it explains EVERYTHING.
     
  18. Curious Cosby

    Curious Cosby New Member

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    That's a good question. I don't think I can give you the specific answer, but I think you were probably close when you mentioned context clues.

    In several places, including Ezekiel 28, Genesis 6, and many others, Satan is either described as adorned with shiny stones and settings, or words are used that can be translated as "shiny" in some way referencing him. Only in Revelation 22 do I know of Christ mentioned as the Bright Morning Star, but I know there are references to him being "The Light Of the World", John 8:12.

    I think early translators were taking words specifically, without including later contextual clues, and using the Latin word that best fit the translation. That is likely why we have the same descriptor used for both Satan and Christ.

    Again, I'm no expert. I just believe that word study can unlock hidden truths, but we must be careful not to let it snag us into fruitless debate.
     
  19. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    WTF?is that a joke?If it's that easy it's your to post the video. Your the OP .If you don't back your threads with proof: especially if a YouTube video is involved:

    .if you don't post it your post is a big fat nothing.
     
  20. Ubon

    Ubon Member

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    It was posted by another member and explained, try to keep up.
     
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