• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The US deficit and what to do about it?

Pete in Panama

Active Member
The US debt is at a record high, with the interest on the debt costing 15% of the total tax revenue...
Somehow this doesn't compute. When I go the FED data center, divide interest by revenue, I get this:

intpctdbt.png

--which not only has the interest/revenue down under ten %, but also shows that we've been far worse in past. A quick glance at the numbers shows that the party of the executive branch doesn't seem to mean much, but the dominant party of the House seems to affect it more.

Makes sense.
 

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
The US debt is at a record high, with the interest on the debt costing 15% of the total tax revenue. In terms of the tax payer, who has to live within their means, or go belly up, when you give tax money to the government, you now get a negative 15% rate of return on your taxes, before anything is done. This is a bad investment. There is no other entity in the private sector or public sector that that behaves this way. What is up with that? Nearly all the state governments have balanced budget amendments, so their tax payers are not ripped off the same as in Washington.

One may ask where is this negative rate of return on our tax money going? Loss means gain for someone else. Who is profiting by this deficit spending scam? The Democrats are not willing to compromise on this deficit scam. They want this scam to go on forever. In this budget cycle, corporate welfare for all the green energy industries is part of target, for this negative rate of return. Maybe the Government needs to get out of the private sector kick back industry.

The little dirty secret is corporate welfare offers kick back incentives for politicians. Maybe anyone who got of gets donations from the green energy welfare, needs to give these back; no more quid pro quo with deficit spending. What type of person would willingly invest in such a selfish scams that loses the tax payer money?

How do we put on the brakes and reverse the rip off of the tax payer? Do we refuse to pay taxes, until they assure us something will be done? Do we test all the leaders for competency in financial matters, and fire any boneheads who do not get it? Do we then bring in competent people? Congress has made it point o have agencies do their dirty work; EPA. Maybe fiscal policy can be done by experts, so we can bypass the boneyard rip offs in Congress, who only get to vote on the final agency policy.

Since the deficit is connected to political donations, maybe we can need to start taxing campaign donations since these often come from the latest negative rates of return. Taxing campaign donations also has the secondary affect on allowing the IRS to audit shady behavior since all needs to be claimed.

Maybe we can also put a pause on all pork barrel spending, since this is contrary to needs of term limits. It is where career politicians use tax money, to bride voters, so they can have an advantage and stay in power. If term limits is off the table, we need to take these voter bribes off the table, so the rip off can end and the tax payer can get their money's worth.

Does anyone have other ideas?
You can download the federal budget into a spreadsheet here: GovInfo

When you do you can sort the items by mandatory or discretionary, if you do that you will see the 2022 federal budget was:

Total Budget: $6.01 trillion
Mandatory: $4.32 trillion
Discretionary: $1.69 trillion
Deficit: $1.80 trillion

The problem is you have to do something about the mandatory spending or raise taxes since the deficit is greater than the discretionary spending. Some want to get rid of the department of education, that is $683 million or 0.038% of the deficit. So there is not much you can do to make a large impact on the deficit in the discretionary expenditures.

If we raise taxes to cover the deficit then each taxpayer would owe about $12,000. (check my math)

I would recommend perusing the budget, it is informative.

when I was born the federal debt was $354 Billion
when I was able to vote for the first time the debt was $2.6 Trillion
it is now $32.4 trillion.

This happened on our watch, we have basically bought things we wanted and paid for it with future labor that does not exist yet. That is immoral in my opinion. We need to fix it for the future citizens. We need to sacrifice some of the mandatory spending for the benefit of future generations.

If we cut $360 Billion per year for 5 years we would have a balanced budget, then we could cut spending by $720 billion per year and we could pay off the debt in 45 years. No politician will ever want to do this because we the citizens will not reelect them. I see no doable solution to the spending/revenue problem.

"Blessed are the young for they shall inherit the national debt". ~ Herbert Hoover

"It would be easier to pay off the national debt overnight than to neutralise the long-range effects of our national stupidity" ~ Frank Zappa
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
You can't complain when you support Republicans.
Your vote says you support zero taxes for these corporations.
Only 1 party supports corporate taxation.

If I could control my taxes and invest in business I could get a positive rate of return If I invest in Washington I will get a negative rate of return. The money is better in the free market until Washington can be competitive. This is why government has to force one to pay taxes; invest in government, while we invest willingly into the private sector.

If corporate taxes were given to government they would act like a drink sailor on shore leave and not like a CEO trying to pay a dividend to the shareholders.

How do we stop the Government incompetence and waste, and turn the debt around.

Trump did create deficits, however he tried to satisfy both sides of the isle and gave the Democrat what they wanted. The last bill of Biden and Dems was only voted for by the Democrats, who originally were hoping to waste $6 trillion, but had to settle for wasting only $2Trillion. Can you see the different in to terms of one sided versus two sided? Neither is the solution to the problem.
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
Ever wonder who promoted NAFTA that imv, accelerated the exodus of American corporations overseas for cheaper labor and tax 'immunity'?
NAFTA was initially promoted by Ronald Reagan. Then George HW Bush promoted NAFTA.
NAFTA would have been signed into law under George HW Bush if he had an additional term.
Clinton was barely in office when the deal was signed.

NAFTA
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
NAFTA was initially promoted by Ronald Reagan. Then George HW Bush promoted NAFTA.
NAFTA would have been signed into law under George HW Bush if he had an additional term.
Clinton was barely in office when the deal was signed.

NAFTA

No.
It wasn't a law until Bill Clinton signed it himself.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
For anyone dependent on SS better hope the republicans get it done otherwise the payments stop until it is fixed.

I'm pleased that the Republicans have threatened to shut down the government if they don't get reductions in Social Security and Medicare, assuming the Democrats to offer zero concessions. The Republicans will have to choose between caving and showing both malice (in the eyes of those at or near retirement) and weakness to anybody watching, or self-destructing by holding firm at least long enough for one Social Security payment to be missed. The American people appear lethargic and shouldn't be expected to care until that happens.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
I'm pleased that the Republicans have threatened to shut down the government if they don't get reductions in Social Security and Medicare, assuming the Democrats to offer zero concessions. The Republicans will have to choose between caving and showing both malice (in the eyes of those at or near retirement) and weakness to anybody watching, or self-destructing by holding firm at least long enough for one Social Security payment to be missed. The American people appear lethargic and shouldn't be expected to care until that happens.

This is another example of the lie through the teeth strategy of the Democrats. The Republicans know there is plenty of waste in Government and plenty can be cut without going after senior citizens who contributed to their own SS funds. Let us go after programs that do not contribute to their own upkeep. This is common sense and usually means Democrat waste. This explain why the Dems, besides Manchin, need and want the waste and deficits to continue. They do not see any problem with bad fiscal math.

What I would do is place all government workers on SS and Medicare and get rid of their overpriced pension and medical system, since it means the civil servants are giving themselves a better deal, than their masters; tax payers. It is not longer a government of the people, by the people and for the people. Imagine hiring a carpenter who takes over your household. You now have to eat soup, so they can eat your steak? This is upside down. Servants should have less than the master, or the servant will become the master. Instead of civil servant we have civil masters? The master does not get the leftovers. We can compromise with equality; one system for all, and help SS.

The boneheads in Washington screwed SS by borrowing from its fund when it was solvent. This was before they could steal with defect spending. We can firm up SS by borrowing from the government worker pension fund, to make this sharing even. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

So many government program are subject to rip off scams, such as people falsely claiming benefits. For example, the tax payers were ripped for $billions during the COVID giveaway, alone. One way to cut costs is to get estimates of the rip off within each program, and then cut that amount from each program. Conceptually, this is extra rip off money is not needed, since it is in excess of those in need. I reminds me of the joke of having to budget for hold up money. If we get rid of the holdups; end user and bureaucratic, we still have enough for genuine need.

Once this extra holdup money is gone, each program will need to optimize better for the needy, since we have enough, in theory, if we can stop all the future holdups. If not, that program loses next year's rip off money. The political pressure has to be accepted by those who run the programs. Many may not be competent enough. This will allow others a chance to show their stuff. We are not cutting anything from the genuine users, but only the holdup money that is being budgeted for and allowed. This how you force positive change; eliminate the negatives.
 
Last edited:

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
One may ask where is this negative rate of return on our tax money going? Loss means gain for someone else. Who is profiting by this deficit spending scam? The Democrats are not willing to compromise on this deficit scam. They want this scam to go on forever. In this budget cycle, corporate welfare for all the green energy industries is part of target, for this negative rate of return. Maybe the Government needs to get out of the private sector kick back industry.

The little dirty secret is corporate welfare offers kick back incentives for politicians. Maybe anyone who got of gets donations from the green energy welfare, needs to give these back; no more quid pro quo with deficit spending. What type of person would willingly invest in such a selfish scams that loses the tax payer money?

I assume you feel the same about the billions we give to the oil and gas industry? Weird that you didn't mention that.

Or that "corporate welfare" for that industry (and others) is pushed by the right. Weird that you didn't mention that either.

Also, deficit =/= debt.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Typical finger-pointing of a Republican.

Couldn't be the $448.9 Billion spent on the Military.

Provide for the common defense is in the Constitution. Investment in military R&D, because it is based on the needs of fear; enemy assault, tends to lead societal technological development. These innovations eventually make it to the market place to help grow the economy. Consider GPS and satellites. How will sex change operations help besides doctor salaries?

If you look at Ukraine and how their country has been busted up and leveled by Russian, so millions of people are suffering, investment in the military is there to avoid such real threats. There is room to cut, since there is waste in all government programs, such as the low bids and then cost overrun, game. This political investment scam is part of the reason infrastructure has been slow to come; prone to ripoffs.

I would apply the principle of defining the waste in the Military spending and then cut the holdup money off the budget. Each program needs to police itself, or self keep losing any residual hold up money, the following year.
 
Top