The universe’s rate of expansion is in dispute – and we may need new physics to solve it

[shunyadragon]

This new serious conflict in measurements of the Hubble Constant and the expansion rate of the universe has created problems that need to be resolved.

From: The universe's rate of expansion is in dispute – and we may need new physics to solve it

The universe’s rate of expansion is in dispute – and we may need new physics to solve it



Cosmic showstopper

Now it seems that this difficulty may be continuing as a result of two highly precise measurements that don’t agree with each other. Just as cosmological measurements have became so precise that the value of the Hubble constant was expected to be known once and for all, it has been found instead that things don’t make sense. Instead of one we now have two showstopping results.

On the one side we have the new very precise measurements of the Cosmic Microwave Background – the afterglow of the Big Bang – from the Planck mission, that has measured the Hubble Constant to be about 46,200 miles per hour per million light years (or using cosmologists’ units 67.4 km/s/Mpc).

On the other side we have new measurements of pulsating stars in local galaxies, also extremely precise, that has measured the Hubble Constant to be 50,400 miles per hour per million light years (or using cosmologists units 73.4 km/s/Mpc). These are closer to us in time.

Both these measurements claim their result is correct and very precise. The measurements’ uncertainties are only about 300 miles per hour per million light years, so it really seems like there is a significant difference in movement. Cosmologists refer to this disagreement as “tension” between the two measurements – they are both statistically pulling results in different directions, and something has to snap.

 

[Thief]

the reference points.....

one item moving differently?.....a different direction and other objects nearby?

 

[shunyadragon]

the reference points.....

one item moving differently?.....a different direction and other objects nearby?

No, based on what I have read from different sources. These measurements are velocity regardless of direction, and the claims of the two different measurements is that they were accurate concerning present technology..

 

[Salvador]

New instruments and future generational telescopes might eventually resolve the measurement discrepancies between the cosmic distance ladder method and cosmic background radiation method for measuring Hubble's Constant. Or maybe something yet undiscovered happened between now and the Big Bang, maybe dark energy's strength can vary.

Why do you think there is such a discrepancy between the results of the CDL method of measurements and the results of the CBR method of measurements for Hubble's Constant?

 

[shunyadragon]

New instruments and future generational telescopes might eventually resolve the measurement discrepancies between the cosmic distance ladder method and cosmic background radiation method for measuring Hubble's Constant. Or maybe something yet undiscovered happened between now and the Big Bang, maybe dark energy's strength can vary.

Why do you think there is such a discrepancy between the results of the CDL method of measurements and the results of the CBR method of measurements for Hubble's Constant?

I have always recommended a word of caution to particularly layman of trying to draw definitive conclusions concerning physics, Quantum Mechanics and cosmology. In these sciences we are fundamentally using the human perspective, and much of the evidence is not necessarily direct objective observations. Our knowledge is evolving and always changing on the cutting edge of research where uncertainties and unknowns are part of the game, and expect changes in these sciences.

I do believe these conflicts will be eventually resolved.

 

[j1i]

The universe expands like a mill stones movement
Or like a car trying to spin around the roundabout, faster without gravity in the center
The material, by the movement of the antagonistic, diverges or repel each other

Frankly I do not have a scientific background in in this topic

But in the Qur'an mention of the expansion of the universe
this is the verse from the spreaders surah
47 We constructed the universe with power (hands) , and We are expanding it.


What I understood from the Quran
Gravity will be formed from the center, which is the hand of God
It will begin the process of folding objects and heavens

in this verse of the prophet surah
104. On the Day when We fold the heaven, like the folding of a book. Just as We began the first creation, We will repeat it—a promise binding on Us. We will act.
Imgur

this is hadith Mohamed said
God Almighty will folds the heavens on the Day of Resurrection. Then he take it with his right hand. Then he will say. i'm the king. Where are the mighty? Where are the prouds? Then he folds the grounds with his left hand. Then he will say i'm the king. Where are the mighty? Where are the prouds?

That is, the cosmic gravitational system will be activated

I try to add scientific ideas through the extrapolation

 

[Salvador]

I have always recommended a word of caution to particularly layman of trying to draw definitive conclusions concerning physics, Quantum Mechanics and cosmology. In these sciences we are fundamentally using the human perspective, and much of the evidence is not necessarily direct objective observations. Our knowledge is evolving and always changing on the cutting edge of research where uncertainties and unknowns are part of the game, and expect changes in these sciences.

I do believe these conflicts will be eventually resolved.

I think dynamical dark energy could perfectly explain the differences between CDL and CBR measurements of Hubble's Constant.


"A flat Friedmann–Robertson–Walker universe dominated by a cosmological constant (Λ) and cold dark matter (CDM) has been the working model preferred by cosmologists since the discovery of cosmic acceleration. However, tensions of various degrees of significance are known to be present among existing datasets within the ΛCDM framework. In particular, the Lyman-α forest measurement of the baryon acoustic oscillations (BAO) by the Baryon Oscillation Spectroscopic Survey prefers a smaller value of the matter density fraction Ω M than that preferred by cosmic microwave background (CMB). Also, the recently measured value of the Hubble constant, H 0 = 73.24 ± 1.74 km s−1 Mpc−1 (ref. 12), is 3.4σ higher than the 66.93 ± 0.62 km s−1 Mpc−1 inferred from the Planck CMB data7. In this work, we investigate whether these tensions can be interpreted as evidence for a non-constant dynamical dark energy. Using the Kullback–Leibler divergence to quantify the tension between datasets, we find that the tensions are relieved by an evolving dark energy, with the dynamical dark energy model preferred at a 3.5σ significance level based on the improvement in the fit alone. While, at present, the Bayesian evidence for the dynamical dark energy is insufficient to favour it over ΛCDM, we show that, if the current best-fit dark energy happened to be the true model, it would be decisively detected by the upcoming Dark Energy Spectroscopic Instrument survey."

Reference: Dynamical dark energy in light of the latest observations

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Letter | Published: 28 August 2017

Dynamical dark energy in light of the latest observations

• Gong-Bo Zhao,
• Marco Raveri,
• Hanyu Zhang

Nature Astronomyvolume 1, pages627–632 (2017)

 

[Salvador]

The universe expands like a mill stones movement
Or like a car trying to spin around the roundabout, faster without gravity in the center
The material, by the movement of the antagonistic, diverges or repel each other

Frankly I do not have a scientific background in in this topic

But in the Qur'an mention of the expansion of the universe
this is the verse from the spreaders surah
47 We constructed the universe with power (hands) , and We are expanding it.


What I understood from the Quran
Gravity will be formed from the center, which is the hand of God
It will begin the process of folding objects and heavens

in this verse of the prophet surah
104. On the Day when We fold the heaven, like the folding of a book. Just as We began the first creation, We will repeat it—a promise binding on Us. We will act.
Imgur

this is hadith Mohamed said
God Almighty will folds the heavens on the Day of Resurrection. Then he take it with his right hand. Then he will say. i'm the king. Where are the mighty? Where are the prouds? Then he folds the grounds with his left hand. Then he will say i'm the king. Where are the mighty? Where are the prouds?

That is, the cosmic gravitational system will be activated

I try to add scientific ideas through the extrapolation

The Quran would be far more impressive if it revealed to us the precise value of Hubble's Constant.

 

[j1i]

The Quran would be far more impressive if it revealed to us the precise value of Hubble's Constant.

shalom by Hebrew and salaam by Arabic
Hahaha
The Quran speaks in a simplified way so as not to disturb the minds


there a program can explain call no clash

and this

But I do not trust no clash program
they confuse the information
Such as the claim that Islam believes Darwin's theory of evolution
theory of evolution are wrog

The theory of evolution shows that God is a weak creator

The simplest way to break the theory of evolution

Why did not the tail grow with mankind?
Haha

In the Qur'an, sinners are punished, who commit great sins become monkeys )downgrade)

Monkeys are independent creatures
But those who become monkeys do not multiply vital

​

 

[Orias]

I wonder if in some ways gravity is wrong.

Doesn't electromagnetism do essentially the same thing?

 

[j1i]

I wonder if in some ways gravity is wrong.

Doesn't electromagnetism do essentially the same thing?

hi brother

The Qur'an did not elaborate on how gravity worked

For example the quran says
2 God is He who raised the heavens without pillars that you can see, and then settled on the Throne. And He regulated the sun and the moon, each running for a specified period. He manages all affairs, and He explains the signs, that you may be certain of the meeting with your Lord.

I think there are enormous magnetic fields to Installations (fixing) objects in the universe


THIS ALSO SPEAKS ABOUT SKY
its can fall like this verse
65 Do you not see that God made everything on earth subservient to you? How the ships sail at sea by His command? That He holds up the sky lest it falls on earth-except by His permission? God is Gracious towards the people, Most Merciful.

What I mentioned is explanations or an attempt to read the meaning of the Qur'an

 

[Orias]

hi brother

The Qur'an did not elaborate on how gravity worked

For example the quran says
2 God is He who raised the heavens without pillars that you can see, and then settled on the Throne. And He regulated the sun and the moon, each running for a specified period. He manages all affairs, and He explains the signs, that you may be certain of the meeting with your Lord.

I think there are enormous magnetic fields to Installations (fixing) objects in the universe


THIS ALSO SPEAKS ABOUT SKY
its can fall like this verse
65 Do you not see that God made everything on earth subservient to you? How the ships sail at sea by His command? That He holds up the sky lest it falls on earth-except by His permission? God is Gracious towards the people, Most Merciful.

What I mentioned is explanations or an attempt to read the meaning of the Qur'an

Just curious. What is your interpretation of the shape of the Earth through the Qur'ran?

 

[j1i]

Just curious. What is your interpretation of the shape of the Earth through the Qur'ran?

The Quran is characterized by a comprehensive view

god said in quran
5 He created the heavens and the earth with reason. He wraps (bowling) the night around the day, and He wraps (bowling) the day around the night. And He regulates the sun and the moon, each running along a specific course. He is indeed the Almighty, the Forgiver.

its look like yin yang
Imgur
From the time of dawn until the time of sunrise, there is an overlap between night and day, and this is only if the earth is circular

and also there is verse confirms that the planet is not flat
I will write in Arabic because some translate wrong
وَأَذِّن فِي النَّاسِ بِالْحَجِّ يَأْتُوكَ رِجَالاً وَعَلَى كُلِّ ضَامِرٍ يَأْتِينَ مِن كُلِّ فَجٍّ عَمِيقٍ [الحج : 27]

And announce the pilgrimage to humanity. They will come to you on foot, and on every transport. They will come from every distant point.

it should wrote Depth point not distant point

That the pilgrimage is for all mankind on earth
The Qur'an did not talk about the distance
Talk about the depth from which people will come
Depth is something that can be from the bottom
This is proof that the earth is not flat


also this verse
3 And it is He who spread the earth, and placed in it mountains and rivers. And He placed in it two kinds of every fruit. He causes the night to overlap the day. In that are signs for people who reflect.

explain
He who spread the earth
There is no geometric shape
The lines continue to endlessly but the ball
As for any other form
The cube has a character
Parallel rectangles in which a character
A ball is not a shape because it is not a letter


this is verse
13 He merges the night into the day, and He merges the day into the night; and He regulates the sun and the moon, each running for a stated term. Such is God, your Lord; His is the sovereignty. As for those you call upon besides Him, they do not possess a speck.

my explain
In front of a light source spins, only the light interferes with the dark
This interference is only if it is a ball

 

[Orias]

When it says come from depth could it mean hell or underworld?

Does Qur'ran talk about firmament?

Circle can also be flat because it is 2d. Ball or sphere is more 3d. But if it says spread out the Earth that can't mean 3d ball or sphere but maybe a flat circle?

I'm interested to know what you think will happen in the end days? Could come from depths mean rise of the dead? Or do you not believe in hell ?

 

[j1i]

When it says come from depth could it mean hell or underworld?

Does Qur'ran talk about firmament?

Circle can also be flat because it is 2d. Ball or sphere is more 3d. But if it says spread out the Earth that can't mean 3d ball or sphere but maybe a flat circle?

I'm interested to know what you think will happen in the end days? Could come from depths mean rise of the dead? Or do you not believe in hell ?

Google translation is not reliable
Once he writes me a circle
Time to write a ball
Once again he writes me different meanings for recycling

The important thing is that the idea is explained
If I write in Arabic or retire from work
I will answer more professionally

about what will happen in the end days? C
My friend apologized
Maybe what I say will oppose your faith
I do not mean insulting and wounding feelings
So please read and not be disturbed


When humans die they will be in a place called the isthmus
Between the death and resurrection
If you was a believer and succeeded in the journey of life
angels will show your place in Paradise
If you are a failure, not thankful for the grace of God and is not unified to God and I mean
Take partners such as Jesus, Buddha, Krishna or any that things is holy qualify to worship
They will see him in the fire and where he will be
If you believe in Christ as God
they will throw you the fire and then say, Seek help from Jesus

And who worships Krishna will say Ask for help from Krishna
He who worships the sun will say to him, Ask for help from the sun
And so on

Then he will say Is there any God can save you?

Is this god that you believe in and fight for it?
Why did not they save you from the fire?
The sinners will weep bitterly and apologize to God
God will not accept their apology
Only those who have not received a warning message period of his life
they will be tested on the Day of Resurrection


There are believers who will be punished and will enter fire for periods of time depending on the size of the sins
Those who were committing sins
Rape theft crimes
Enslaving people
Children killing



The angels will bring a ram between Paradise and fire
They will say what this is ؟
People will say this is the death
They will slaughter the sheep and then angels will say
O people of fire, immortality without death
And the people of Paradise immortality without death

I will convey to you some verses that speak of death and the scenes of the Hereafter
Accounting Of Deeds


There are stories that Muhammad told us about punishment
Suicide bomber has a special punishment...

Did you know that a person who commits suicide will be punished on the Day of Judgment with the same instrument that he committed suicide?
I mean who commits suicide to blow himself up
Will be constantly exploding

Sunni Muslims deny suicide
While some Shiites are encouraging it for bombing enemies



with full respect
shalom
salam

 

[Orias]

No offense taken. I was curious if possibly the day of resurrection is what is meant by arise from the depths.

What I mean is a circle is not a ball. A round table is a circle, yet it is also flat.

 

[Orias]

If this helps you at all...by what I mean circle can be flat...


لا تزال الدائرة مستوية

 

[j1i]

If this helps you at all...by what I mean circle can be flat...


لا تزال الدائرة مستوية

There is no evidence that the Qur'an said that the earth is flat
The depth of it is that the earth is not flat
Will people come out of the under of ground or there are people who live in water?
And explain the light and the night to speak that above they all need a circular mass

Therefore because of the absence of evidence that the Qur'an said that the earth is flat we can not accuse him without evidence

God Almighty spoke holistically
The mention of some details, may cause differences between people, so there are hidden things by God for mercy

The smart ones, if they read my words easily, will know that the earth is not flat

But I think you want to look for more obvious things

I want to talk about a miracle in the quran, frank and clear

GOD said in quran
33. O society of jinn and humans! If you can pass through the bounds of the heavens and the earth, go ahead and pass. But you will not pass except with authorization.

34. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

35. You will be bombarded with flares of fire and brass, and you will not succeed.

36. So which of your Lord’s marvels will you deny?

How did the Prophet Muhammad know that some meteorites contained copper metal?

 

[shunyadragon]

I wonder if in some ways gravity is wrong.

Doesn't electromagnetism do essentially the same thing?

No, electromagnetism is a separate distinct force. Actually gravity is not really described as a distinct force. It is described as the attraction between objects with mass as a manifestation of space/time curvature.

Possibly more to follow . . .

 

[Thief]

last I heard.....the universe is expanding

and gaining speed

and you prefer a constant?