The Universe is as we want it

[Frater Sisyphus]

I agree, it's all a matter of perspective (positive or negative) on what we see around us.

 

[dianaiad]

To be positive and objective are the same thing. The Universe is exactly what we want it to be. Think about it for a little while and see if you don't all agree.

Hmmn. Perhaps if one defines 'positive' in the 'positive claim' sense of a debate...that is, "I'm positive that the universe consists of a bunch of black holes surrounded by galaxies."

there is some objective evidence for this view, and I suppose that those who are convinced by that evidence are positive that they are correct and this is what the universe actually is.

However, I've never been a fan of Schrodinger's cat. For one thing, I have a problem with someone who would treat a cat in that manner whether it's a thought experiment or not.

For another, I think that things are what they are, no matter what we happen to think about them. We can HOPE that our perceptions are more or less accurate, but, well.....history has shown us that we, most of the time, simply aren't.

Or at least, we aren't completely accurate. Every time we learn something new, our perception of the universe changes. That doesn't mean that the UNIVERSE suddenly became something else though, does it?

Isn't science and objectivity about discovery (or 'uncovering'), not manufacturing something that isn't actually there?

Mind you, scientific history is full of people who have screwed up perceptions of what 'is,' and who hang onto those perceptions through fire, flood, and peer reviewed papers, so perhaps I'm wrong.

 

[Etritonakin]

To be positive and objective are the same thing. The Universe is exactly what we want it to be. Think about it for a little while and see if you don't all agree.

18For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

21Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Our future is to make the universe exactly what we want it to be -as long as we want it to be good.

 

[godnotgod]

The Universe is a perfect whatever-it-is.

 

[robocop (actually)]

This should be in the poetry forum. I'm going to respond with another rhyming couple...

Because if the universe were other than exactly what we see,
It would surely be a universe devoid of you and me...

PS - Leibniz would have agreed with you on the positive and objective thing - best of all possible worlds and all that...Voltaire, to the contrary, thought that we could make it better by 'cultivating our garden'...You should (everyone should) read Candide - if they haven't already.

I read Candide, but didn't understand it too well.

 

[gnostic]

Spoken like a true groundhog.

Groundhog can talk?

 

[gnostic]

To be positive and objective are the same thing.

Not even close. To be positive means I like it. To be objective means it is how it is, whether I like it or not.

I expect more from you than that. I am stating that two variables equal each other.

They still don’t mean the “same thing”, and they certainly don’t equal to each other.

If they were two “different” variables, they wouldn’t be equal to each other, but if you want to show their relation with each other, then that’s a possibility.

Where did you learn maths and equations from, because it would seem you need a refresher course in learning what variables mean?

The Universe is exactly what we want it to be. Think about it for a little while and see if you don't all agree.

Being “positive” about what exactly?

We still don’t understand much about the Earth and the Solar System, and what we know about the rest of the universe, even less than that.

 

[robocop (actually)]

They still don’t mean the “same thing”, and they certainly don’t equal to each other.

If they were two “different” variables, they wouldn’t be equal to each other, but if you want to show their relation with each other, then that’s a possibility.

Where did you learn maths and equations from, because it would seem you need a refresher course in learning what variables mean?



Being “positive” about what exactly?

We still don’t understand much about the Earth and the Solar System, and what we know about the rest of the universe, even less than that.

This is certainly how I roll, but I'm well aware I'm an exception and that most humans think nothing of the sort. I'm pretty sure the reasoning that I used isn't the same as yours, either.

The universe is exactly what I want it to be because I accept and embrace things for what they are in their objective sense instead of constantly thinking they should be changed. And in appreciating things for what they are in their objective sense, I see intrinsic value in all things. By seeing intrinsic value, I see beauty, awe, and inspiration everywhere - positivity flows through me. I can sing the glories of dusk alongside the glories of dawn; marvel at the rotting of flesh as much as the blooming of a spring flower. But, like I said, I'm well aware I'm an exception.

Also, we are only aware of the things we can control to make ourselves better. If something is beyond our control, accepting that makes it better.

There just seems to be an economy where what we can do, what we know we can do, and what we want to do are balanced.

 

[MonkeyFire]

The universe and Earth are under no obligations to bend to our will and be what we want them to be. To think they are is certainly a height of human arrogance. The universe isn't even obligated to make sense to us, and to say it's as we want when we don't even actually know what it is really grasping at straws. Not even straws, really, but nothing more than air.

God isnt obliged.

 

[MonkeyFire]

The universe and Earth are under no obligations to bend to our will and be what we want them to be. To think they are is certainly a height of human arrogance. The universe isn't even obligated to make sense to us, and to say it's as we want when we don't even actually know what it is really grasping at straws. Not even straws, really, but nothing more than air.

That's a scary concept. Faith is fundamental to life and nature as hope and is not obliged at all but we can count on being happy. God doesnt save people, people must save themselves or remain behind. Knowledge has a place in religion as apprehension is not the same as omniscience.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's a scary concept. Faith is fundamental to life and nature as hope and is not obliged at all but we can count on being happy. God doesnt save people, people must save themselves or remain behind. Knowledge has a place in religion as apprehension is not the same as omniscience.

Whats scary about it?

 

[MonkeyFire]

Whats scary about it?

If we all got tortured for the rest of time, I would consider that scary. God is Heaven, Heaven is nature.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If we all got tortured for the rest of time, I would consider that scary. God is Heaven, Heaven is nature.

I find it scary you believe in this eternal torture. Do you need it to keep your behaviors moral and ethical? I certainly do not.

 

[MonkeyFire]

I find it scary you believe in this eternal torture. Do you need it to keep your behaviors moral and ethical? I certainly do not.

I'm a pacifist. Your the one who says nature has no obligation.

 

[robocop (actually)]

It is going to burn up with fire.

Spoiler alert from my most recent book;

if there's an entropy death or the physical constants change, we might still be able to adapt.

Yes, in 1 billion years the Sun will burn the Earth and in 5 billion years it will burn out.

We might be able to transfer our life in a way.

 

[robocop (actually)]

How do you think that is going to work out for you?

Let's just say there are obstacles to living each power of 10 years, and if I can overcome one I can seek to overcome the next.

And if I can't, I can put whatever ideas I can out there to help future people.

But the main point of the book is to inspire people now so we will act appropriately now about all of our future years.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm a pacifist. Your the one who says nature has no obligation.

Because it has no obligation to us. Ideally, we live in equilibrium and harmony with the environment. In sustaining the wonder that is life, we are no more important than the bacteria that decays material intonutrients for new life. The universe is even bigger, and were hardly minute creatures riding along on a moss-covered speck of iron hurdling through the universe. That alone is just the facts we know, amd that alone is a very great deal for our limited brains to try to take in and make sense of.

 

[McBell]

To be positive and objective are the same thing. The Universe is exactly what we want it to be. Think about it for a little while and see if you don't all agree.

if we are going to anthropomorphize the universe, it seems to me the evidence clearly points to the universe not giving a single half crickets fart about you, or me, or even all of humanity.

 

[robocop (actually)]

if we are going to anthropomorphize the universe, it seems to me the evidence clearly points to the universe not giving a single half crickets fart about you, or me, or even all of humanity.

I wasn't anthropomorphizing the Universe.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Just a review of my position (I endorse Quintessence's view as well).

I got post # 27, my own -
I think if you think of something bad, but then you think of the reason, things will be optimistic because either it will help you experience the opposite better or because you are not yet ready to get beyond it or several other possible reasons.

I'm not trying to say there is some magical Karma that just balances everything out for us but we can be contented in whatever circumstances we find ourselves because of our knowledge and because we appreciate things because of how they influence us for instance.

This is certainly how I roll, but I'm well aware I'm an exception and that most humans think nothing of the sort. I'm pretty sure the reasoning that I used isn't the same as yours, either.

The universe is exactly what I want it to be because I accept and embrace things for what they are in their objective sense instead of constantly thinking they should be changed. And in appreciating things for what they are in their objective sense, I see intrinsic value in all things. By seeing intrinsic value, I see beauty, awe, and inspiration everywhere - positivity flows through me. I can sing the glories of dusk alongside the glories of dawn; marvel at the rotting of flesh as much as the blooming of a spring flower. But, like I said, I'm well aware I'm an exception.