The Unitarian Problem

[Terrywoodenpic]

What error? The error men made in not placing their faith in God?

All scripture is inspired of God and reveals the truth of God. The truth of God is, IMO, the Holy One, the Saviour Jesus Christ. If you cannot see Christ in the story of Noah then maybe you should look again. Is it based on a real flood, and did Noah and his family exist? Yes, I believe so. Do you have evidence to prove that a flood did not occur, or that Noah did not exist?

There may have been a local inundation that the story tellers based Noah and the flood on, but at this distance it is impossible to prove one way or the other, but it is clearly largely religious fable.

However like most such stories in the Bible it can be used as a useful basis for teaching ethics and about Faith in God.

 

[Redemptionsong]

I would not rely too much on Revelation.
It only scraped into the Bible on the third attempt.
It is a bit like finding religious truth from the pen of Ron Hubbard.
Any similarity to the truth is pure chance.

That's where the unity of scripture becomes important. The book of Revelation contains extracts and references to many other books of the Bible. It has a special relationship with the book of Genesis. Once you begin to unravel the tapestry of scripture, you end up having no scripture at all. That position of absolute atheism is difficult to maintain.

This is why Jesus' statement, 'scripture cannot be broken', is so true and powerful.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

That's where the unity of scripture becomes important. The book of Revelation contains extracts and references to many other books of the Bible. It has a special relationship with the book of Genesis. Once you begin to unravel the tapestry of scripture, you end up having no scripture at all. That position of absolute atheism is difficult to maintain.

This is why Jesus' statement, 'scripture cannot be broken', is so true and powerful.

As long as you see scripture as a mix of fable, folk law. history, reminisces, speculation and ancient laws.
it is both interesting and useful.
It is contains probably the best record of the teachings of Jesus that remain to us. but it is difficulty to separate the fact from the fiction, and from the misremembered. but it is almost all we have.....

 

[shunyadragon]

What error? The error men made in not placing their faith in God?

All scripture is inspired of God and reveals the truth of God. The truth of God is, IMO, the Holy One, the Saviour Jesus Christ. If you cannot see Christ in the story of Noah then maybe you should look again. Is it based on a real flood, and did Noah and his family exist? Yes, I believe so. Do you have evidence to prove that a flood did not occur, or that Noah did not exist?

There is overwhelming geologic evidence that no such flood occurred in recent geologic history where the flood covered the mountains on a regional flood or world flood. I am a geologist/geomorphologist/soil scientist of over fifty years, and I have been around the world studying geology.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Can a mere mortal make this claim? Can a man resurrect the dead and give immortality

Yup

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out in a loud voice,
Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God

I thought demons were liars.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

You're speaking the language of the twenty-first century. Isaiah was speaking 700 years before the birth of Christ, and he gives the perspective of a man surveying his horizons. There is absolutely no indication from the Bible that people thought the earth was flat!

You would think God would know the right word.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

So, now God becomes the liar

No. It makes the authors the liars. The ones who actually wrote it down are not God.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Are we not all sinners in need of cleansing?

Jesus said he was sent to the sick, not the well. Is Jesus wrong about people being well?

 

[Redemptionsong]

Jesus said he was sent to the sick, not the well. Is Jesus wrong about people being well?

Or is it that some people think they are well, when in fact they are sick and don't know it?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Then is Jesus Christ not worthy to be served as our God?

Why not just worship God? If Jesus is God, you are already covered. If he isn’t, God should be primary anyway. Win-win.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

If you believe that Jesus was speaking for God. You should follow his teachings, and that does not include worshiping him, which he reserved for God alone.

Exactly. The Lord’s Prayer isn’t addressed to Jesus

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Is sin nothing more than the forgetting of God's presence? Do you really believe that the Holy Spirit continues to dwell in a temple where God's presence is forgotten?

An omnipresent God must be everywhere by definition.

 

[Redemptionsong]

An omnipresent God must be everywhere by definition.

'Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy Holy Spirit from me.' [Psalm 51:11]

Did the Psalmist get it wrong? Or is it possible for God to be absent when God chooses?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

What error? The error men made in not placing their faith in God?

All scripture is inspired of God and reveals the truth of God. The truth of God is, IMO, the Holy One, the Saviour Jesus Christ. If you cannot see Christ in the story of Noah then maybe you should look again. Is it based on a real flood, and did Noah and his family exist? Yes, I believe so. Do you have evidence to prove that a flood did not occur, or that Noah did not exist?

More to the point, there is no evidence at all that there was a flood or that Noah is other than a fable.
Neither has any bearing on the Exitance of God.

However I do not doubt that the story was based on a local flood or one that was still relevant to the teller of the original story.
It must be remembered that the that the old testament stories were not written down till after the Jewish diaspora and the second Temple. Prior to that it was an oral tradition. Where there were two versions of a story both were written down, which is evident in the variations in the Torah attributed to Moses. They represent the different verbal traditions of The Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah, that were used to provide the final written texts, as we know them today.

 

[shunyadragon]

Back to the Unitarian problem and whether they may call themselves as Christians. There are many diverse and conflicting beliefs among Christians, and some consider you not a Christian. There are many other churches and millions of believers that call themselves Christians that do not believe as you do. Can they call themselves Christians?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Back to the Unitarian problem and whether they may call themselves as Christians. There are many diverse and conflicting beliefs among Christians, and some consider you not a Christian. There are many other churches and millions of believers that call themselves Christians that do not believe as you do. Can they call themselves Christians?

Few Christian churches consider Unitarians to be Christians.
Some unitarians Consider them selves to be Christian
though none are Trinitarians.

Most of the early church were not Trinitarians it had not been invented yet.
Most of the early church did not think Jesus was God, Like himself they called him a son of God. They like him and as he taught, worshiped God.

The principal non trinitarian Churches are the Unitarians, Non subscribing Presbyterians, Jehova witnesses, and the Latter Day Saints... all of which are considered heretical by Trinitarian Churches.

No one holds Copyright to the term Christian. A unitarian would consider it to mean a follower of Christ and his teachings.

A modern form of Unitarinism The UU do not consider themselves Christian but they do have Christian members.

 

[YoursTrue]

Why not just worship God? If Jesus is God, you are already covered. If he isn’t, God should be primary anyway. Win-win.

Jesus isn't the God that some people think of him as. Make of it as some people will, he still said no matter what, the Father is greater than he is. John 14:28 - "You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am." Did he say the Father is equal to me? No, he didn't. He said the Father is greater than he is. Just to say...

 

[YoursTrue]

Few Christian churches consider Unitarians to be Christians.
Some unitarians Consider them selves to be Christian
though none are Trinitarians.

Most of the early church were not Trinitarians it had not been invented yet.
Most of the early church did not think Jesus was God, Like himself they called him a son of God. They like him and as he taught, worshiped God.

The principal non trinitarian Churches are the Unitarians, Non subscribing Presbyterians, Jehova witnesses, and the Latter Day Saints... all of which are considered heretical by Trinitarian Churches.

No one holds Copyright to the term Christian. A unitarian would consider it to mean a follower of Christ and his teachings.

A modern form of Unitarinism The UU do not consider themselves Christian but they do have Christian members.

Yes, I like the way you say the Trinity had not been invented yet by the early church.

 

[YoursTrue]

Few Christian churches consider Unitarians to be Christians.
Some unitarians Consider them selves to be Christian
though none are Trinitarians.

Most of the early church were not Trinitarians it had not been invented yet.
Most of the early church did not think Jesus was God, Like himself they called him a son of God. They like him and as he taught, worshiped God.

The principal non trinitarian Churches are the Unitarians, Non subscribing Presbyterians, Jehova witnesses, and the Latter Day Saints... all of which are considered heretical by Trinitarian Churches.

No one holds Copyright to the term Christian. A unitarian would consider it to mean a follower of Christ and his teachings.

A modern form of Unitarinism The UU do not consider themselves Christian but they do have Christian members.

Now it might be a good time for you to explain what you think a Christian is. Thank you.