The Unforgivable Sin Contradiction

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Did you not understand what I said...
I said the Lord Jesus Christ himself foretold what the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is..
in the book of Mark 13.
And when it will happen
And who are the ones that can commit it..
It's all there in the book of Mark 13

I understood what you said. I gave you the benefit of the doubt in that you made a typo in using (Mark 13) as reference for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, resulting in the unpardonable sin. That, as I already said, is addressed in (Mark 3:22-30). It is also addressed in (Matt. 12:22-31).

(Matt. 12:22-31) "Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?

A great miracle had been done by Christ. Jewish religious leaders could not deny it as it was done before them and the people. This was just the sort of works Messiah would do when He came. Thus the people were drawing that same conclusion. "Is not this the son of David?"

The religious leaders were losing their hold on the people. They couldn't deny the miracle so they instead said Christ did not do this miracle or any other miracle by the power of God. He does it by the power of the prince of the devils.

Or in other words; they were attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to satan. To which Christ responded: (Matt. 12:31) "Wherefore I say unto you All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men; but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."

(Mark 3:22-30) addresses the same. Your (Mark 13) does not.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[URAVIP2ME]

. from Strong's
"an error of the understanding " - Strong's Greek: 266. ἁμαρτία (hamartia) -- a sin, failure
it is ignorance, as almost everything in NT has double leads, one for psychic one for pneumatic. not cured ignorance, unforgivable ignorance, sin..

An 'error in understanding' in Scripture would be unintentional sin, Not willful, Not on purpose.....
Whereas, 'sin with understanding' ( such as: Do Not murder, Do Not steal ) is intentional, on purpose......
Premeditated sin is a deliberate doing of wrong.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It's called nature.

If you are thinking about man's ' fallen nature ' but man was created with perfect human nature.
Man originally was created upright with leanings toward righteousness.
Once man broke God's Law then his leanings bent / toward wrongdoing.
Never the less, we all have the freedom to act responsibly toward God.
If stealing, murder, lying enters the mind we don't have to act upon it.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why do I need to rationalize it. (Matt. 5-7) speaks to the laws of the future Kingdom. Not Church laws. But in the kingdom the one who is not forgiving others sins is not sinning. But it results in the Father not forgiving their sins. And much can be said about what forgiveness entails.
As for the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, that is a done deal........................

I find Jesus ' Sermon on the Mount ' (Matt.5-7) doing what it says there depicts what God's kingdom will look like under Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth when it begins.
Mankind can't bring in, or usher in God's kingdom, but the ' narrow road ' leads to the entrance to that better world of righteousness, a better world here on Earth coming under Christ as king of God's kingdom.

 

[leov]

An 'error in understanding' in Scripture would be unintentional sin, Not willful, Not on purpose.....
Whereas, 'sin with understanding' ( such as: Do Not murder, Do Not steal ) is intentional, on purpose......
Premeditated sin is a deliberate doing of wrong.

not realy, Matt5:20 + explans, it also goes to 1Cor 2 division into psychic and pneumatic souls.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I understood what you said. I gave you the benefit of the doubt in that you made a typo in using (Mark 13) as reference for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, resulting in the unpardonable sin. That, as I already said, is addressed in (Mark 3:22-30). It is also addressed in (Matt. 12:22-31).

(Matt. 12:22-31) "Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?

A great miracle had been done by Christ. Jewish religious leaders could not deny it as it was done before them and the people. This was just the sort of works Messiah would do when He came. Thus the people were drawing that same conclusion. "Is not this the son of David?"

The religious leaders were losing their hold on the people. They couldn't deny the miracle so they instead said Christ did not do this miracle or any other miracle by the power of God. He does it by the power of the prince of the devils.

Or in other words; they were attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to satan. To which Christ responded: (Matt. 12:31) "Wherefore I say unto you All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men; but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."

(Mark 3:22-30) addresses the same. Your (Mark 13) does not.

Good-Ole-Rebel

I giving you the benefit of the doubt...
As there is No typo..

As I said..the Lord Jesus Christ foretold himself..now read this again..
The Lord Jesus Christ himself
Foretold what the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is in Mark 13..
Can you grasp this.
The Lord Jesus Christ himself foretold in Mark 13....What the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is..
And when it will happen
And by who can commit it.
Jesus Christ himself foretold all
this in Mark 13.
Why is it that you keep trying to over ride what Jesus Christ foretold in Mark 13
What the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is
When it will happen
And who can commit it.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

not realy, Matt5:20 + explans, it also goes to 1Cor 2 division into psychic and pneumatic souls.

Matthew 5:20 let's us know how un-righteous the Pharisees were. They would Not be part of the kingdom of heaven.
However, I find Jesus disciples could prove righteous, righteous like the figurative humble 'sheep' of Matthew 25:37,40.
Jesus' brothers ( spiritual brothers -Matthew 25:40) could have that first or earlier resurrection - Revelation 2:10; Revelation 20:6.

 

[leov]

Matthew 5:20 let's us know how un-righteous the Pharisees were. They would Not be part of the kingdom of heaven.
However, I find Jesus disciples could prove righteous, righteous like the figurative humble 'sheep' of Matthew 25:37,40.
Jesus' brothers ( spiritual brothers -Matthew 25:40) could have that first or earlier resurrection - Revelation 2:10; Revelation 20:6.

not really, Jesus tells that their consciousness does not suit requirements of the Kingdom and goes on giving examples of new type of consciousness, e.g. the Book says do not kill but i say do not even be angry, consciousness of Agape.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I understood what you said. I gave you the benefit of the doubt in that you made a typo in using (Mark 13) as reference for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, resulting in the unpardonable sin. That, as I already said, is addressed in (Mark 3:22-30). It is also addressed in (Matt. 12:22-31).

(Matt. 12:22-31) "Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?

A great miracle had been done by Christ. Jewish religious leaders could not deny it as it was done before them and the people. This was just the sort of works Messiah would do when He came. Thus the people were drawing that same conclusion. "Is not this the son of David?"

The religious leaders were losing their hold on the people. They couldn't deny the miracle so they instead said Christ did not do this miracle or any other miracle by the power of God. He does it by the power of the prince of the devils.

Or in other words; they were attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to satan. To which Christ responded: (Matt. 12:31) "Wherefore I say unto you All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men; but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."

(Mark 3:22-30) addresses the same. Your (Mark 13) does not.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Mark 13 Absolutely Positively does addresses what the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is.
And when it happens
And who can commit it..

Here's what disciple Paul written in
1st Corinthians 2:14---"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned"

Therefore it takes Spiritual discernment to understand what Jesus Christ foretold what the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is
And when it will happen
And who can commit it.
This takes spiritual discernment to understand Mark 13.

As Disciple Paul had written in
1 Corinthians 2 14---"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned"

 

[blü 2]

How many unforgivable sins are there? As we can see, according to Matthew 12:31, there is only one, namely, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. But, in Matthew 6:15, we see another unforgivable sin mentioned, namely, the failure to forgive others of their sins, which is clearly different from the unforgivable sin mentioned in Matthew 12:31. This is a clear contradiction. I have never seen a Christian even attempt to explain away these contradictions. They are rarely even discussed, but they are quite obvious:

Matthew 12:31:

And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

Matthew 6:15:

But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

So, I'm curious. Christians, how do you attempt to rationalize this biblical contradiction?

And why didn't God forgive Adam and Eve, the Babel builders, those who provoked the Flood, the Egyptians, the citizens of Sodom and Gomorrah, and so on through a great long list of people in the Tanakh who met their deaths at [his] hands?

And why didn't [he] forgive the world its sins with one snap of those omnipotent fingers? Why did someone have to die in that process?

And if forgiveness is the keyword, how can there possibly be a hell?

Don't do as I do, do as I say ...

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

I find Jesus ' Sermon on the Mount ' (Matt.5-7) doing what it says there depicts what God's kingdom will look like under Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth when it begins.
Mankind can't bring in, or usher in God's kingdom, but the ' narrow road ' leads to the entrance to that better world of righteousness, a better world here on Earth coming under Christ as king of God's kingdom.

I agree. The Sermon on the Mount are the Laws of the Millennial Kingdom. And, you are correct. Man cannot bring it in. Christ shall bring it in. And it will be through the conquering Messiah. (Is. 63:1-6)

At this time, yes. The Gospel of Grace goes out to all. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. A narrow way as it is the only way.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[james bond]

How many unforgivable sins are there? As we can see, according to Matthew 12:31, there is only one, namely, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. But, in Matthew 6:15, we see another unforgivable sin mentioned, namely, the failure to forgive others of their sins, which is clearly different from the unforgivable sin mentioned in Matthew 12:31. This is a clear contradiction. I have never seen a Christian even attempt to explain away these contradictions. They are rarely even discussed, but they are quite obvious:

Matthew 12:31:

And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

Matthew 6:15:

But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

So, I'm curious. Christians, how do you attempt to rationalize this biblical contradiction?

No rationalization at all; it's not a contradiction. I've learned from RF that atheists see contradictions everywhere in the Bible. It is more evidence of Satan's rebellious nature. We know he uses animals to speak through. He uses you to speak these contradictions.

For Matthew 6:15, we pray:



One of the biggest difficulties in life is to forgive others for their sins. We can't get past it in our lives and it causes mental anguish problems. Instead of seeing the problem and the blame, we dwell on one person. It may have been a slight, but it won't go away. Thus, we pray to forgive others who have sinned against us, so our own sins are forgiven.

As for the unforgiveable sin, you cannot know. One has pray sincerely and have God reveal themselves to them. Once you do, then you are blessed with the Holy Spirit. It is for the believers who has received the greatest blessing, but then commits major sin and will not repent or even speaks ill of God. I've only met one person like this and it turned out he was about to go crazy. He may have hurt people. I had to tell him to seek professional help.

 

[Milton Platt]

Correct. No rationalization, simply proper exegesis.

How do you definitively show that is the case?

 

[shmogie]

How do you definitively show that is the case?

Logic. God will only forgive sin when asked. He will not forgive a sin if not asked. therefore, an unrepented sin cannot be forgiven, therefore, it is an unforgivable sin.

 

[Milton Platt]

Logic. God will only forgive sin when asked. He will not forgive a sin if not asked. therefore, an unrepented sin cannot be forgiven, therefore, it is an unforgivable sin.

So you are saying the Bible is wrong when it says there is only one unforgivable sin?

 

[shmogie]

So you are saying the Bible is wrong when it says there is only one unforgivable sin?

Nope.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

So you are saying the Bible is wrong when it says there is only one unforgivable sin?

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven. (Matt. 12:31) All other sins shall be forgiven. (Matt. 12:31)

With blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, it is a done deal. No forgiveness. Judgement.

With all other sins, they can be forgiven. Doesn't mean they will be. That is up to God. Note the example I gave of Moses in post #(35).

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[shmogie]

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven. (Matt. 12:31) All other sins shall be forgiven. (Matt. 12:31)

With blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, it is a done deal. No forgiveness. Judgement.

With all other sins, they can be forgiven. Doesn't mean they will be. That is up to God. Note the example I gave of Moses in post #(35).

Good-Ole-Rebel

So, what constitutes blasphemy against the Spirit?

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

So, what constitutes blasphemy against the Spirit?

Attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to satan. (Matt. 12:24,27,31) See post #(41).

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I agree. The Sermon on the Mount are the Laws of the Millennial Kingdom. And, you are correct. Man cannot bring it in. Christ shall bring it in. And it will be through the conquering Messiah. (Is. 63:1-6)
At this time, yes. The Gospel of Grace goes out to all. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. A narrow way as it is the only way. Good-Ole-Rebel

Yes, the Gospel of Grace, the good news about God's kingdom government (thy kingdom come) goes out to all.
God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44 being the solution to mankind's suffering.
Not just to 'go out to all' but as Jesus said to endure to the end - Matthew 24:13-14.
Hold on being faithful until the coming ' time of separation ' on Earth as found at Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.