The UK surveillance state. Why?

[oldbadger]

Quote, strait out of the above link, from the very first sentence in the very first paragraph, it says "Within the United Kingdom, a unitary sovereign state, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales have gained a degree of autonomy through the process of devolution."

...but keep digging yourself deeper into your hole, though. It's adorable.

Ahhhh....... you missed another member's post which linked that the UK is made up of three countries and a province. England's a country.

Very very few people here would consider either England or the United Kingdom to be a bloomin' State.

But enough of that.......... which kind of surveillance are you so worried about?

 

[ChristineM]

Where is this number from?

In what way does this not apply to religious wars?

The number of deaths in these wars
Albigensian Crusade, 1208-49
Algeria, 1992-
Baha'is, 1848-54
Bosnia, 1992-95
Boxer Rebellion, 1899-1901
Christian Romans, 30-313 CE
Croatia, 1991-92
English Civil War, 1642-46
Holocaust, 1938-45
Huguenot Wars, 1562-1598
India, 1992-2002
India: Suttee & Thugs
Indo-Pakistani Partition, 1947
Iran, Islamic Republic, 1979-
Iraq, Shiites, 1991-92
Jews, 1348
Jonestown, 1978
Lebanon 1860 / 1975-92
Molucca Is., 1999-
Mongolia, 1937-39
Northern Ireland, 1974-98
Russian pogroms 1905-06 / 1917-22
St. Bartholemew Massacre, 1572
Shang China, ca. 1300-1050 BCE
Shimabara Revolt, Japan 1637-38
Sikh uprising, India, 1984-91
Spanish Inquisition, 1478-1834
Taiping Rebellion, 1850-64
Thirty Years War, 1618-48
Tudor England
Vietnam, 1800s
Witch Hunts, 1400-1800
Xhosa, 1857
Arab Outbreak, 7th Century CE
Arab-Israeli Wars, 1948-
Al Qaeda, 1993-
Crusades, 1095-1291
Dutch Revolt, 1566-1609
Nigeria, 1990s, 2000s

Communism is not a religion, the murders in China and Soviet Russia during their revolutions (and after) were carried out in the name of nationalism and fear that subversion spread rapidly among gatherings.

 

[ChristineM]

It is cheaper than having Bobbies on the beat. Now a days the best use for our part-time police service is scanning the internet looking for Hate Crime.

No doubt, Sharia Law will protect some shop owners - Met Police to 'cut shoplifting and criminal damage investigations' in bid to save £400m

That's you nicked then

Remember who is cutting police budgets after promising to protect them

 

[ADigitalArtist]

The number of deaths in these wars
Albigensian Crusade, 1208-49
Algeria, 1992-
Baha'is, 1848-54
Bosnia, 1992-95
Boxer Rebellion, 1899-1901
Christian Romans, 30-313 CE
Croatia, 1991-92
English Civil War, 1642-46
Holocaust, 1938-45
Huguenot Wars, 1562-1598
India, 1992-2002
India: Suttee & Thugs
Indo-Pakistani Partition, 1947
Iran, Islamic Republic, 1979-
Iraq, Shiites, 1991-92
Jews, 1348
Jonestown, 1978
Lebanon 1860 / 1975-92
Molucca Is., 1999-
Mongolia, 1937-39
Northern Ireland, 1974-98
Russian pogroms 1905-06 / 1917-22
St. Bartholemew Massacre, 1572
Shang China, ca. 1300-1050 BCE
Shimabara Revolt, Japan 1637-38
Sikh uprising, India, 1984-91
Spanish Inquisition, 1478-1834
Taiping Rebellion, 1850-64
Thirty Years War, 1618-48
Tudor England
Vietnam, 1800s
Witch Hunts, 1400-1800
Xhosa, 1857
Arab Outbreak, 7th Century CE
Arab-Israeli Wars, 1948-
Al Qaeda, 1993-
Crusades, 1095-1291
Dutch Revolt, 1566-1609
Nigeria, 1990s, 2000s

Communism is not a religion, the murders in China and Soviet Russia during their revolutions (and after) were carried out in the name of nationalism and fear that subversion spread rapidly among gatherings.

Those are dates, but not the numbers. Honestly your number given seems wildly overinflated when compred to other studies, and just as missing of context as you believe the communist ones are. I could just as easily say that the crusades were about political expansionism and colonialism, others about border and trade disputes, ethnic tribalism, internal power disputes. To say that they were just religious wars is as inaccurate as saying the anti-religious oppresson of the atheist totalitarian regimes were 'atheist wars,' although state atheism was certainly a factor.

 

[ChristineM]

Those are dates, but not the numbers. Honestly your number given seems wildly overinflated when compred to other studies, and just as missing of context as you believe the communist ones are. I could just as easily say that the crusades were about political expansionism and colonialism, others about border and trade disputes, ethnic tribalism, internal power disputes. To say that they were just religious wars is as inaccurate as saying the anti-religious oppresson of the atheist totalitarian regimes were 'atheist wars,' although state atheism was certainly a factor.

The numbers are available in history texts, what other studies?
But the crusades were about religion, Islam and Christianity, poor example considering the amount of historical evidence
Also the rest are as stated, either one side or both fighting for their religion.
No, not inaccurate,
Yes state atheism was a factor. Atheism is not a religion hence those wars were not included in the list of religious wars

 

[ADigitalArtist]

The numbers are available in history texts, what other studies?

For example you've listed witch hunts but the amount of confirmed executions is ridiculously tiny. Around 100 people, and only 13 in all American history.
If you put all the deaths from all the crusades together and rounded the number up, you would get 2 million people, tops. Al-Qaida, not even a million.
So I'm a little suspicious of 800 million.

But the crusades were about religion

No less than the death of between 85 and 100 million people was about atheism.

Atheism is not a religion hence those wars were not included in the list of religious wars

Never said it was.

 

[ChristineM]

For example you've listed witch hunts but the amount of confirmed executions is ridiculously tiny. Around 100 people, and only 13 in all American history.
If you put all the deaths from all the crusades together and rounded the number up, you would get 2 million people, tops. Al-Qaida, not even a million.
So I'm a little suspicious of 800 million.

No less than the death of between 85 and 100 million people was about atheism.

Never said it was.

So that's 113 + 2000000 + <1000000, the total is adding up nicely

That is not so. The Russian revolution was essentially a war for religion, the religious rabble wanting religion as taught in the bible versus the elite who placed the tzar's as demigod's between priest and god. The fear of returning to such a state was the impetus for the purges. Not atheism.

But you appear to be minimizing deaths from religion and combining nationalism, revolution (caused by religion), various purges as deaths by atheism.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

So that's 113 + 2000000 + <1000000, the total is adding up nicely

That is not so. The Russian revolution was essentially a war for religion, the religious rabble wanting religion as taught in the bible versus the elite who placed the tzar's as demigod's between priest and god. The fear of returning to such a state was the impetus for the purges. Not atheism.

But you appear to be minimizing deaths from religion and combining nationalism, revolution (caused by religion), various purges as deaths by atheism.

How is that adding up nicely? If anything it's showing a trend of overestimating the deaths religion has caused while ignoring the factors outside religion not connected to it.
This sounds a little too 'atheists can do no wrong, only religion can.' Trying to make excuses for the deaths caused by an atheist state by either saying religions do more, or pretending that 'no actually they were religions too.' That's a shame. Because it's missing the heart of the issue while trying to play the blame game, imo.

 

[ChristineM]

How is that adding up nicely? If anything it's showing a trend of overestimating the deaths religion has caused while ignoring the factors outside religion not connected to it.
This sounds a little too 'atheists can do no wrong, only religion can.' Trying to make excuses for the deaths caused by an atheist state by either saying religions do more, or pretending that 'no actually they were religions too.' That's a shame. Because it's missing the heart of the issue while trying to play the blame game, imo.

This is "The UK surveillance state. Why?" Thread

If you want to start one by transferring this your post a the op please tell me where it is.

In the meantime backs to the subject

 

[Father Heathen]

Ahhhh....... you missed another member's post which linked that the UK is made up of three countries and a province. England's a country.

Very very few people here would consider either England or the United Kingdom to be a bloomin' State.

But enough of that.......... which kind of surveillance are you so worried about?

Just let it go, son.

 

[oldbadger]

Just let it go, son.

You already did!

 

[oldbadger]

No doubt, Sharia Law will protect some shop owners - Met Police to 'cut shoplifting and criminal damage investigations' in bid to save £400m

This is another thread entirely.
And it is not the Met Police but all Constabularies in England and Wales who will not have to attend shops to arrest shop-thieves, but all/any of them.

The value of a theft now has to reach £200 before it becomes 'Indictable' and can be detained by lay/unwarranted people such as shop managers, guards or store detectives etc. I know this sounds crazy........... it is.

The law which abolished offences 'arrestable' (detainable) by anybody was passed in 2005, and a couple of years ago the value of an Indictable theft was set by law at £200.

I cannot see this legislation surviving in action for very long. It's madness.

But it's nothing to do with Sharia.

 

[kaat]

I know all this is sort of fascinating, but really, if you're taking life this seriously, then ... good luck with that.

 

[Notanumber]

In the good old days, the Tory Party was the party of Law and Order. These days they seem content to rely on Sharia law.

 

[LionLooking]

In the good old days, the Tory Party was the party of Law and Order. These days they seem content to rely on Sharia law.

Really? Can you give us a list of Sharia laws which have been passed by the current executive - or any past executive?

 

[Notanumber]

Really? Can you give us a list of Sharia laws which have been passed by the current executive - or any past executive?

If I provided a video, you wouldn’t watch it.

 

[LionLooking]

If I provided a video, you wouldn’t watch it.

I don't want a video - I want you to explain IN YOUR OWN WORDS. Can you do that?

 

[Altfish]

If I provided a video, you wouldn’t watch it.

Well describe what happened, which law it is/was in your own words and x-reference you video.
Many read this at work or on mobiles, videos are not easy to watch in such places.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Oh, I'll be kind......... How many governments and separate law systems can a 'Nation State' have?

America has over 50. Thousands when you consider all the municipalities.

 

[oldbadger]

America has over 50. Thousands when you consider all the municipalities.

Wow!
That must be so risky for travellers crossing several States.
Obviously municipalities will have special laws (Byelaws we call 'em) because of individual municipality characteristics.
But it's handy to have uniformity of legislation as far as possible.
Having said that Scotland and Northern Ireland have very different systems and laws to England and Wales.