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The U.K. Supreme Court rules bakery did not discriminate over gay cake message

Discussion in 'Law' started by Shaul, Oct 10, 2018.

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  1. Yes, they were right

    11 vote(s)
    78.6%
  2. No, they were wrong

    3 vote(s)
    21.4%
  1. Shaul

    Shaul Well-Known Member

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  2. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    Had it been about not baking a cake for a gay couple, it woud have gone the other way.
     
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  3. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    Yes, it makes imminent sense, I was never happy of the original ruling. The implications were dubious to say the least. Those critical of the original ruling have argued that it could force a Muslim baker to bake a cake with an offensive image of Prophet Mohammed.
     
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  4. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    The UK had one of these as well. I did not know that.

    I noted this at the end of the BBC story: As a result of Wednesday's ruling, there are likely to be further cases in which services are refused on the basis of beliefs held by the service providers, adds our correspondent.

    To me this illustrates how insane our (and the UK's) society is these days.

    Let me put it this way: if I owned a cake shop and someone came in wanting a "Trump is Wonderful MAGA" cake, I'd say go elsewhere. Or to be even more extreme, someone came in and wanted a cake saying "someone should kill @sun rise 's children", I'll tell him to f*** off.

    There's a rational area where active discrimination should be challenged. And then there are those who push things to the extreme case. This to me is such a case and I'm a profound supporter of LGBT rights.
     
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  5. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    Quite.

    The baker went out of his way to invite the gay complainant to patronise his bakery in the future. The issue was not that they were not happy to serve a gay man, but that they were not happy to have to work on a political message they disagreed with. I see no difference between this case and the example of a market research company not wanting to work for a client in the tobacco industry. Companies are entitled to take political positions.
     
  6. Anthem

    Anthem Active Member

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    I think if the baker had been more sympathetic from the start he could have refused with no trouble.

    But maybe I'm wrong. It's just the way customer complaints usually are born - not out of the mistake but out of lack of sympathy.

    For some reason modern customers believe they deserve special sympathy when their needs aren't met.:rolleyes:
     
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  7. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    I think where it went pear-shaped was that a shop assistant took the order and the customer's money and only a day later did the management say sorry we don't want to do this, here is your money back.

    I have to say though I do wonder if this wasn't a stunt on the part of the gay man, to test the law. Having a cake baked with the political logo "Support gay marriage" written on it in icing sugar is not exactly a normal thing to do.
     
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  8. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    It has been an astonishingly expensive stunt for him even if he only has to pay his own costs.
    I do not know if costs have been assigned by th court yet. But if thay all land on the Gay mans plate, that will be horrendous for him.
     
  9. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    I just watched this on the news.....imagine if a fundamentalist walked into a bakery run by a gay couple and asked for a cake that said "Stop gays taking over the world"....we would never hear the end of it, but the principle is the same IMV.

    The judge said it was a political statement and the bakers should not be forced to do something against their personal beliefs. Political or religious....it doesn't matter. You can't demand your rights if you rob others of theirs. You become what you hate.
     
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  10. Woberts

    Woberts The Perfumed Seneschal

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    The problem was with the cake, not the people wanting the cake.
    While the bakers are still being dicks, they're legally being dicks.
     
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  11. Stanyon

    Stanyon WWMRD?

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    What I find funny in this is that it featured Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street and it read "Support Gay Marriage" or something along those lines. The whole Bert and Ernie being gay thing came from a tweet that received national news mentions here in the states and apparently the U.K. Some gays and gay supporters jumped on the bandwagon even though the creator of B&E said he always just saw them as good friends.
     
  12. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    Ah but the acton has been pursued not by him but by the Equalities Commission. So it will be us taxpayers that will pay £500k for this aspect of law to be clarified. Good value?
     
  13. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    What bothers me is that it had to go all the way to the supreme court till the logic of the case was recognised. What was the problem with the two lower courts that they could not see it.

    The supreme court might be dry as dust, but they are fair dispasionate and free from political pressures.
     
  14. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    Ha. I had exactly the same thought. And it was a unanimous opinion, too. But that's why we have the Law Lords, (sorry Tony Blair's grovelling copy of the US) "Supreme Court", I suppose.
     
  15. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    Changed name and location but same people.... and unlike the American system is non political.
    They always sit as an odd number so you don't get ties.
     
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  16. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Hihg Intellajence Kwoshunt.
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    Only the lawyers win.
    They design the laws & the system so that everything is complicated, lengthy, & spendy.
     
  17. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    Well, I wondered if there would be any implications of the ruling and one has happened already...

    Photographers booked for Christian bakers in gay cake case refuse to hand over images in ‘stand against discrimination’

    "A photographic agency hired to take pictures of the Christian owners of a bakery after their Supreme Court victory in the “gay cake” case has refused to hand over the images, saying the company was “standing up against discrimination”."

    It was bound to happen and a whole plethora of others will undoubtedly follow
     
  18. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    I would like to see an activist try that and get away with it.
     
  19. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    Well an activist would not get away with it after yesterday's court ruling.
     
  20. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    This is a form of easy cynicism I disagree with, much though I like bacon sandwiches.:D

    It is not only the lawyers who win and it is not the lawyers that design the law. The rule of law is what prevents mob rule. It is a crucial protection of the weak and the unpopular against the tyranny of the majority. As we can see in this case in fact. A Northern Ireland Protestant baker is not exactly UK mainstream in his views, but his rights, and those of others who may find themselves in a similar position, have been upheld. A good piece of pushback against an unthinking tide of politically correct opinion.
     
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