The Two Popes (Film)

[Laika]

The Two Popes is a Netflix film about the relationship between Pope Benedict XVI ( played by Anthony Hopkins) and the Future Pope Francis (played by Johnathon Pryce).

Wikipedia: The Two Popes - Wikipedia

The Guardian Review:
The Two Popes review – Hopkins and Pryce make one holy alliance

Based on the trailer, I’d say it looks like a very promising movie and perhaps a welcome antidote to the darkness of the present even if it be the consolations and reflections of religious faith.

What do you think? Thoughts and comments welcome.

 

[Estro Felino]

It seems interesting...
It surely focuses on saying Bergoglio is better than Ratzinger...but many in Rome do miss the latter.

 

[exchemist]

It seems interesting...
It surely focuses on saying Bergoglio is better than Ratzinger...but many in Rome do miss the latter.

I regarded Ratzinger as fairly reactionary, but in one respect I am tremendously grateful to him: like many Germans, he was musical. He did a lot to safeguard the traditional music of the church, including Gregorian chant, which was in danger of disappearing, outside monasteries.

 

[pearl]

The film looks promising. I find Ratzinger the theologian, truly gifted and have many of his books, but I also find a duality between the Cardinal and Benedict XVI. Anyone involved in rel ed following Vat II experienced the Cardinal as he was nicknamed, 'the Vatican's 'rottweiler'. If Vat II was considered a revolution then he brought the Church back towards center.
It seemed clear from his homily at the beginning of the Conclave that he wanted the job.
Let us live our ministry in this way, as a gift of Christ to men! But, in this moment, let us ask our Lord insistently that, after the great gift of Pope John Paul II, he will again give us a pastor according to his heart, a pastor who will lead us to knowledge of Christ, to his love, to true joy.
Cardinal Ratzinger's Homily in Mass Before Conclave - ZENIT - English

Whereas Francis appears to be leading the Church toward a renewal of Vat II.

 

[pearl]

I watched the movie on Netflix and think it was well done and pretty accurate, especially where Francis is concerned. Much of Benedict's portrayal was subtitled, which I have no patience for. The casting was very well done.

 

[exchemist]

I went to see this film yesterday. It was surprisingly good, I thought. Very well acted indeed and quite moving in places. The theme was the contrast in background and personalities of the two and how antagonism became friendship. Although Benedict came across as prickly and intransigent it was really he who opened the door to friendship between them.

Hard to know whether there is any truth to the idea that Benedict saw Bergoglio as the man to take on the challenge and let him retire, as the film makes out.

The conflicted back story of Bergoglio in the Argentine military era of the 1970s was interesting. I found myself thinking of the dilemma faced by Pius XII in the era of Nazism and fascism. Do you denounce and oppose evil governments, or do you put the survival of the ministry of the church in evil times first? One weakness of the film, I thought, in fact, was the lack of any balancing back story about Ratzinger. I wondered whether perhaps Francis had given permission to the film makers to include material about him, but Benedict had not. As it was, it seemed to be mainly a film about our current pope.

But a good film and not by any means only of interest to Catholics. I recommend it.

 

[Estro Felino]

I went to see this film yesterday. It was surprisingly good, I thought. Very well acted indeed and quite moving in places. The theme was the contrast in background and personalities of the two and how antagonism became friendship. Although Benedict came across as prickly and intransigent it was really he who opened the door to friendship between them.

Hard to know whether there is any truth to the idea that Benedict saw Bergoglio as the man to take on the challenge and let him retire, as the film makes out.

The conflicted back story of Bergoglio in the Argentine military era of the 1970s was interesting. I found myself thinking of the dilemma faced by Pius XII in the era of Nazism and fascism. Do you denounce and oppose evil governments, or do you put the survival of the ministry of the church in evil times first? One weakness of the film, I thought, in fact, was the lack of any balancing back story about Ratzinger. I wondered whether perhaps Francis had given permission to the film makers to include material about him, but Benedict had not. As it was, it seemed to be mainly a film about our current pope.

But a good film and not by any means only of interest to Catholics. I recommend it.

I agree with your review.

 

[pearl]

Hard to know whether there is any truth to the idea that Benedict saw Bergoglio as the man to take on the challenge and let him retire, as the film makes out.

I think Bergoglio was a popular runner up in the Conclave that elected Ratzinger. I gathered from the movie that Bergoglio had requested retirement and Benedict refused him.

The conflicted back story of Bergoglio in the Argentine military era of the 1970s was interesting. I found myself thinking of the dilemma faced by Pius XII in the era of Nazism and fascism.

Its what followed when Bergoglio is sent to a forsaken area, because of his actions in Argentina. It became his 'dark night of the soul'.
This is the story of why Jorge Mario Bergoglio was exiled to this room -- and how the painful lessons he learned here are transforming the Catholic Church.
The Pope's Dark Night of the Soul

One weakness of the film, I thought, in fact, was the lack of any balancing back story about Ratzinger.

I totally agree. There is so much more that could have been included; the young theologian who along with Hans Kung served as advisors to the German bishops Vat II Council.
More interesting is the Chair he held in theology at the Tubingen school, following the Council, due in part to recommendation by Hans Kung, also at Tubingen. While there he wrote one of his most profound works, 'Introduction to Christianity.'
His experience at Tubingen, in the sixties, was disastrous and I think greatly influenced the future direction he would take as he saw the greatest fear for the Church was Marxism.

 

[exchemist]

I think Bergoglio was a popular runner up in the Conclave that elected Ratzinger. I gathered from the movie that Bergoglio had requested retirement and Benedict refused him.



Its what followed when Bergoglio is sent to a forsaken area, because of his actions in Argentina. It became his 'dark night of the soul'.
This is the story of why Jorge Mario Bergoglio was exiled to this room -- and how the painful lessons he learned here are transforming the Catholic Church.
The Pope's Dark Night of the Soul



I totally agree. There is so much more that could have been included; the young theologian who along with Hans Kung served as advisors to the German bishops Vat II Council.
More interesting is the Chair he held in theology at the Tubingen school, following the Council, due in part to recommendation by Hans Kung, also at Tubingen. While there he wrote one of his most profound works, 'Introduction to Christianity.'
His experience at Tubingen, in the sixties, was disastrous and I think greatly influenced the future direction he would take as he saw the greatest fear for the Church was Marxism.

Interesting.

One thing that did strike me about the film is that we do at least have, as pope, someone who has been really at the sharp end of painful moral and social dilemmas. No doubt that is why he is relatively reluctant to sit in judgement of people.

 

[metis]

I was not that fond of Pope Benedict, but in part that was he didn't do much to try and deal with the pedophile priest situations and also the Vatican Bank scandal. Even though Pope Francis was slow to deal with both, he finally got his and the Church's act together, although much still needs to be done on both.

BTW, an excellent book that deals with this in detail is "The Pope: Francis, Benedict, and the Decision That Shook the World" by Anthony McCarten.

 

[pearl]

I was not that fond of Pope Benedict, but in part that was he didn't do much to try and deal with the pedophile priest situations and also the Vatican Bank scandal. Even though Pope Francis was slow to deal with both, he finally got his and the Church's act together, although much still needs to be done on both.

We are Church appreciates the present activities of the Pope combating paedophilia in the Church. Benedict’s tragedy is caused by the fact that he started it too late, too weakly, and that he is not supported enough by all cardinals, bishops, and the Roman Curia. He is now harvesting the fruits he sowed, when in 2001, as prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) he ordered all bishops in the universal church to conceal from public authorities any case of sexual crime against minors by members of the clergy and instead to inform his office.
http://elephantsinthelivingroom.org/pastoral_docs/We_Are_Church_Response_to_Hans_Kung.pdf

In reality this has been the practice of the Church for centuries.