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The truthful religion abhors blindfaith in God and or Science. Right?

SpeaksForTheTrees

Well-Known Member
[6:51] Say: “I do not say to you: ‘I possess the treasures of Allah,’ nor do I know the unseen; nor do I say to you: ‘I am an angel.’ I follow only that which is revealed to me.” Say: ‘Can a blind man and one who sees be alike?’ Will you not then reflect?
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=6&verse=50
Open for the Believers and the Atheist to comment, please.
Regards
Maybe is possible to have understanding of Allah , but never see the words
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Assuming that a true religion has to exist seems like blind faith to me.

Blind faith ( credulity ) has No basis for its faith. Jesus, on the other hand, based his faith by his logical reasoning on the old Hebrew Scriptures.
Jesus often prefaced his statements with the words, " it is written " meaning already written down in the old Hebrew Scriptures.
The Bible is unique in that it has corresponding or parallel cross-reference verse and passages showing the internal harmony among its many writers by topic or by subject reference.
Jesus explained Scripture ( true religion ), and said his genuine followers would be identified by having the same self-sacrificing love as Jesus displayed - John 13:34-35
 
Blind faith ( credulity ) has No basis for its faith. Jesus, on the other hand, based his faith by his logical reasoning on the old Hebrew Scriptures.
Jesus often prefaced his statements with the words, " it is written " meaning already written down in the old Hebrew Scriptures.
The Bible is unique in that it has corresponding or parallel cross-reference verse and passages showing the internal harmony among its many writers by topic or by subject reference.
Jesus explained Scripture ( true religion ), and said his genuine followers would be identified by having the same self-sacrificing love as Jesus displayed - John 13:34-35

Not a good argument in defense of faith. Someone could just as easily create a religion based on their logical reasoning of the Harry Potter books. No matter how many people followed this new religion (and the unsubstantiated claims they made about it) wouldn't make what is in the novels true.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Blind faith ( credulity ) has No basis for its faith. Jesus, on the other hand, based his faith by his logical reasoning on the old Hebrew Scriptures.
Jesus often prefaced his statements with the words, " it is written " meaning already written down in the old Hebrew Scriptures.[/quote]Jesus' "It is writtens" are usually followed by a simple rebuttal or dissent, not critical analysis.
The Bible is unique in that it has corresponding or parallel cross-reference verse and passages showing the internal harmony among its many writers by topic or by subject reference.
Internal harmony? The Bible strikes me as a mass of contradictions.

The truthful religion abhors blind-faith
[11:25] The case of the two parties is like that of the blind and the deaf, and the seeing and the hearing. Is the case of the two alike? Will you not then understand?
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=11&verse=24
Regards
You're assuming the authors of the revelatory scriptures were not delusional. Unless their assertions are testable, or at least falsifiable, your belief amounts to blind faith.

Why do we have such faith in the 'revelations' of ancient seers, when modern persons, making the same claims of divine inspiration, would be met with skepticism and referred for psychological assessment?
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
[6:51] Say: “I do not say to you: ‘I possess the treasures of Allah,’ nor do I know the unseen; nor do I say to you: ‘I am an angel.’ I follow only that which is revealed to me.” Say: ‘Can a blind man and one who sees be alike?’ Will you not then reflect?
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=6&verse=50
Open for the Believers and the Atheists to comment, please.
Regards

Blind faith is certainly unwise.

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Blind faith is certainly unwise.

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Very few things can be "proved." The best we can do is collect and test evidence.
Heb. 11:1 is gobbledygook.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Jesus often prefaced his statements with the words, " it is written " meaning already written down in the old Hebrew Scriptures.
Jesus' "It is writtens" are usually followed by a simple rebuttal or dissent, not critical analysis.
Internal harmony? The Bible strikes me as a mass of contradictions.
You're assuming the authors of the revelatory scriptures were not delusional. Unless their assertions are testable, or at least falsifiable, your belief amounts to blind faith.
Why do we have such faith in the 'revelations' of ancient seers, when modern persons, making the same claims of divine inspiration, would be met with skepticism and referred for psychological assessment?[/QUOTE]

"It is written........ " shows Jesus' ability to use his logical reasoning on the old Hebrew Scriptures, thus Jesus could expound on them for us.

The apostle John wrote his gospel account ' after ' he wrote Revelation.
Just because Revelation is written in very-vivid word pictures does Not mean Revelation does Not have corresponding verses as does the rest of Scripture.
Those corresponding verses or passages show the internal harmony among the Bible writers.

Since the Bible is Not written ABC as a dictionary, then we need to study or research the Scriptures by topic or subject arrangement.
Taking one subject, or one topic, at a time helps us see there is Not a mass of contradiction but harmony in Scripture.
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
Very few things can be "proved." The best we can do is collect and test evidence.
Heb. 11:1 is gobbledygook.
What do you think "proved" means? "Collect and test evidence" sounds about right to me.

G1381
δοκιμάζω
dokimazō
dok-im-ad'-zo
From G1384; to test (literally or figuratively); by implication to approve: - allow, discern, examine, X like, (ap-) prove, try.

Heb. 11:1 speaks of something basically no different than knowing an electron exists without actually seeing it.

Assume for a moment that you saw miraculous things such as described in the bible -would that not be evidence of something unseen -even if you did not fully understand it?
You may not have experienced such things -but you cannot say those people did not.

More important than knowing miraculous things can happen is knowing what is good to do.
One can prove that keeping the commandments is good by considering them and keeping them.
God had it written that if we draw near to him (by sincerely doing the above) he would draw near to us -if you ever want to test it.
 
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URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Very few things can be "proved." The best we can do is collect and test evidence.
Heb. 11:1 is gobbledygook.

If someone gave you a deed to a house, or a deed to land that you never saw, would you say the deed is false, or the deed is Not a real deed ?
Just because we have Not yet seen the fulfillment of God's promise to father Abraham - Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18; Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 11:39 - does Not mean it will Not come to pass. ALL of earth's nations will be blessed with healing - Revelation 22:2 - just as promised to Abraham.

The world scene today is the ' collection and test evidence ' that what Jesus foretold - Luke 21:11 - is coming to pass.
We are nearing the soon coming ' time of separation ' on earth as found at Matthew 25:31-33,37 before Jesus ushers in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member

Etritonakin said:
What do you think "proved" means? "Collect and test evidence" sounds about right to me.


OK, you're using an archaic definition of "proof," like "80 proof liquor" meaning liquor tested and found to be 40% alcohol.
The bible should update it's wording. If it means "test" it should say test. Archaisms, poetic as they may be, lead to misunderstandings; potentially dangerous misunderstandings.
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member




OK, you're using an archaic definition of "proof," like "80 proof liquor" meaning liquor tested and found to be 40% alcohol.
The bible should update it's wording. If it means "test" it should say test. Archaisms, poetic as they may be, lead to misunderstandings; potentially dangerous misunderstandings.

My consumption or understanding of alcohol should not affect your decisions.

I exist and drink beer -therefore you surrender to stupidity? :shrug:

It's a free country -but don't let it be free enough to vote itself into captivity by controlling it!

Should I expend effort trying to tell the bible to update its wording?
 
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RamaRaksha

Active Member
Message = God
Messenger = Religion

The message is more important, not who delivered or which religion is right. God is love(Christianity), God is peace(Islam), God is Compassion(Buddhism) and God is Truth(Hinduism) - one who is full of love, peaceful, compassionate and who tells the Truth and does the right thing is always with God, eve if he or she is an Atheist
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Assuming there is such a thing as a truthful religion, it would make a point of encouraging its followers to develop accurate understandings and to let go of superstitious beliefs.

That would, in current days, imply understanding what science means, including a basic grasp of falseability. And in all likelihood it would also imply letting go or at least greatly deemphasizing the very usage of the idea of a deity.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
[QUOTE="LuisDantas, post: 4653355, member: 16218"]Assuming there is such a thing as a truthful religion, it would make a point of encouraging its followers to develop accurate understandings and to let go of superstitious beliefs.

That would, in current days, imply understanding what science means, including a basic grasp of falseability. And in all likelihood it would also imply letting go or at least greatly deemphasizing the very usage of the idea of a deity.[/QUOTE]
If there is no truth, can any science exist then?
Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Truth exists. What God would have to do with that,I have no idea. The very concept of God is entirely unnecessary.

Truth is one name/attribute/manifestation of G-d:
[31:31] That is because it is Allah alone Who is the True God, and whatever they call upon beside Him is falsehood, and because it is Allah alone Who is the Most High, the Incomparably Great.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=31&verse=30
31:30 This is because Allah is the Truth, and that which they call upon besides Him is the falsehood, and that Allah is the High, the Great.
http://islamawakened.com/quran/31/st26.htm#30
Regards
 
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