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The Trumped Up Economy

According to Trumpworld, the US economy has taken off as a result of Donald Trump's presidency. But what do the facts say? Let's review.


upload_2020-1-22_22-14-10.png



upload_2020-1-22_22-14-52.png



upload_2020-1-22_22-31-36.png



Source: US economy under Trump: The greatest ever?

So those are the facts. We can all have our own opinions - but we cannot have our own facts.

Below, is my opinion. What is yours?

===

Personally, I do not give the president much credit for the health of the US economy. Whether we are talking about Clinton, GW Bush, Obama, or Trump, the economy is cyclical and not entirely predictable, and much of what happens is a consequence of events and policies that pre-dated each president.

For example, since Obama took office, the US has gone from being a net oil importer, to the world's largest oil and gas producer. The US now produces more oil than Saudi Arabia. It is hard to over-state the immense economic - not to mention strategic - value created by unlocking and unleashing one of the world's most valuable resources, which now constitutes nearly 20% of global production (setting aside its long-term negative impacts on climate). This had nothing to do with any policies put in place by Obama or Trump. They just happened to be in charge when this occurred, and did nothing to stop it from continuing.

There is no arguing that the US economy is doing well under Trump. He is entitled to due credit for not inverting the trend, and for confronting China, which both parties agreed needed to happen. He also gets credit for not embroiling us in another costly war.

But, it is certainly debatable the extent to which the positive economic trends when Obama left office, continued under Trump in spite of, rather than because of, his economic initiatives: namely, trade wars, renegotiating NAFTA, and his foreign policy.

His tax cuts, for example, undoubtedly increased stock prices. But the benefits disproportionately accrued to the wealthy. And it was paid for by ballooning the deficit. So it will likely be future, average Americans who will be disproportionately burdened when that debt comes due, in reduced services and/or higher taxes.

Finally, it is difficult to give Trump credit for things like the unemployment rate - which is indeed low - when he has proven himself to be a shameless liar who misleads his own supporters on such topics. To wit: when Obama was leaving office, candidate Trump said the low unemployment then was the "greatest hoax in politics". Trump told his supporters that the "real" unemployment rate was +40% (really!) Today, naturally, he no longer doubts Labor Dept. figures.

Source: Donald Trump says the unemployment rate may be 42 percent

So, giving Trump credit for things he previously blatantly lied about, and today exaggerates, IMO, is like giving a snake oil salesman credit for a genuine medical recovery. He is an economic charlatan. We are lucky his potions have not yet done more harm.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
He also gets credit for not embroiling us in another costly war.
That claim I challenge. His stupidity lead to an attack on bases housing US troops, and a commercial airliner was mistakenly shot down. The ensuing public opinion and pressure from Iranians seemed to have enforced to the Iran state "you ****ed up." I give credit to those wrongly murdered for averting a war. Trump made a move, Iran shot back, but missed, made a nasty blunder, and seemed to have left it at that.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Mostly to shut up the people fawning over the “trump economy”.

We are going to get one at some point. Might as well be before the election...
Is the fallout and suffering of the poor and working class really worth it? A recession or depression happens, people who aren't at the absolute top of the economy suffer and lose the most.
 

SoyLeche

meh...
Is the fallout and suffering of the poor and working class really worth it? A recession or depression happens, people who aren't at the absolute top of the economy suffer and lose the most.
A recession is going to happen. Guaranteed. It’s just a matter of when.
 

SoyLeche

meh...
Is the fallout and suffering of the poor and working class really worth it? A recession or depression happens, people who aren't at the absolute top of the economy suffer and lose the most.
Oh - and in my current situation I’d be hurt pretty bad myself. I think it would still be worth it.
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
According to Trumpworld, the US economy has taken off as a result of Donald Trump's presidency. But what do the facts say? Let's review.


View attachment 36455


View attachment 36456


View attachment 36457


Source: US economy under Trump: The greatest ever?

So those are the facts. We can all have our own opinions - but we cannot have our own facts.

Below, is my opinion. What is yours?

===

Personally, I do not give the president much credit for the health of the US economy. Whether we are talking about Clinton, GW Bush, Obama, or Trump, the economy is cyclical and not entirely predictable, and much of what happens is a consequence of events and policies that pre-dated each president.

For example, since Obama took office, the US has gone from being a net oil importer, to the world's largest oil and gas producer. The US now produces more oil than Saudi Arabia. It is hard to over-state the immense economic - not to mention strategic - value created by unlocking and unleashing one of the world's most valuable resources, which now constitutes nearly 20% of global production (setting aside its long-term negative impacts on climate). This had nothing to do with any policies put in place by Obama or Trump. They just happened to be in charge when this occurred, and did nothing to stop it from continuing.

There is no arguing that the US economy is doing well under Trump. He is entitled to due credit for not inverting the trend, and for confronting China, which both parties agreed needed to happen. He also gets credit for not embroiling us in another costly war.

But, it is certainly debatable the extent to which the positive economic trends when Obama left office, continued under Trump in spite of, rather than because of, his economic initiatives: namely, trade wars, renegotiating NAFTA, and his foreign policy.

His tax cuts, for example, undoubtedly increased stock prices. But the benefits disproportionately accrued to the wealthy. And it was paid for by ballooning the deficit. So it will likely be future, average Americans who will be disproportionately burdened when that debt comes due, in reduced services and/or higher taxes.

Finally, it is difficult to give Trump credit for things like the unemployment rate - which is indeed low - when he has proven himself to be a shameless liar who misleads his own supporters on such topics. To wit: when Obama was leaving office, candidate Trump said the low unemployment then was the "greatest hoax in politics". Trump told his supporters that the "real" unemployment rate was +40% (really!) Today, naturally, he no longer doubts Labor Dept. figures.

Source: Donald Trump says the unemployment rate may be 42 percent

So, giving Trump credit for things he previously blatantly lied about, and today exaggerates, IMO, is like giving a snake oil salesman credit for a genuine medical recovery. He is an economic charlatan. We are lucky his potions have not yet done more harm.

A group consisting of 68 business, financial and academic economists attribute Trump's economic policies of deregulation as well as tax cuts enacted by Congress and approved by President Trump as the main reason for the economic upturn that has occurred since Trump was elected.

Please check out this reference: Economists agree: Trump, not Obama, gets credit for economy

Also, I as being a right-wing populist American Nationalist, I feel as though I must give Trump credit for leading "America into unprecedented economy prosperity with his executive actions of enacting regulation cuts, U.S. withdrawal from the Paris climate treaty, fair and balanced trade deals like U.S.M.C.A. and the China Phase One, and approval of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017; all this of our Trump-led Trumped-up economy leading to record prosperity with record high stock valuations, record employment opportunities for minorities, real wage growth for the middle class, and reduced poverty. Furthermore, Trump has helped strengthened our nation's security by way of having border security improved, the withdrawal of U.S. troops from endless wars, and the appointment of conservative judges." -- Salvador

Man stabs, kills pro-Trump boss
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
According to Trumpworld, the US economy has taken off as a result of Donald Trump's presidency. But what do the facts say? Let's review.


View attachment 36455


View attachment 36456


View attachment 36457


Source: US economy under Trump: The greatest ever?

So those are the facts. We can all have our own opinions - but we cannot have our own facts.

Below, is my opinion. What is yours?

===

Personally, I do not give the president much credit for the health of the US economy. Whether we are talking about Clinton, GW Bush, Obama, or Trump, the economy is cyclical and not entirely predictable, and much of what happens is a consequence of events and policies that pre-dated each president.

For example, since Obama took office, the US has gone from being a net oil importer, to the world's largest oil and gas producer. The US now produces more oil than Saudi Arabia. It is hard to over-state the immense economic - not to mention strategic - value created by unlocking and unleashing one of the world's most valuable resources, which now constitutes nearly 20% of global production (setting aside its long-term negative impacts on climate). This had nothing to do with any policies put in place by Obama or Trump. They just happened to be in charge when this occurred, and did nothing to stop it from continuing.

There is no arguing that the US economy is doing well under Trump. He is entitled to due credit for not inverting the trend, and for confronting China, which both parties agreed needed to happen. He also gets credit for not embroiling us in another costly war.

But, it is certainly debatable the extent to which the positive economic trends when Obama left office, continued under Trump in spite of, rather than because of, his economic initiatives: namely, trade wars, renegotiating NAFTA, and his foreign policy.

His tax cuts, for example, undoubtedly increased stock prices. But the benefits disproportionately accrued to the wealthy. And it was paid for by ballooning the deficit. So it will likely be future, average Americans who will be disproportionately burdened when that debt comes due, in reduced services and/or higher taxes.

Finally, it is difficult to give Trump credit for things like the unemployment rate - which is indeed low - when he has proven himself to be a shameless liar who misleads his own supporters on such topics. To wit: when Obama was leaving office, candidate Trump said the low unemployment then was the "greatest hoax in politics". Trump told his supporters that the "real" unemployment rate was +40% (really!) Today, naturally, he no longer doubts Labor Dept. figures.

Source: Donald Trump says the unemployment rate may be 42 percent

So, giving Trump credit for things he previously blatantly lied about, and today exaggerates, IMO, is like giving a snake oil salesman credit for a genuine medical recovery. He is an economic charlatan. We are lucky his potions have not yet done more harm.

I dunno. A president can be a major factor in influencing the economy.

Tracking deregulation in the Trump era

Especially when it comes to the deathgrip the socialists eagerly and regularly apply on business.

Trump fortunately opened the airways of a number of businesses that was literally having the life choked out of it by the left's regulatory stranglehold.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
That claim I challenge. His stupidity lead to an attack on bases housing US troops, and a commercial airliner was mistakenly shot down. The ensuing public opinion and pressure from Iranians seemed to have enforced to the Iran state "you ****ed up." I give credit to those wrongly murdered for averting a war. Trump made a move, Iran shot back, but missed, made a nasty blunder, and seemed to have left it at that.
Wait for the rest of the story. Way too soon to see how it plays out.
 

Stanyon

WWMRD?
Mostly to shut up the people fawning over the “trump economy”.
We are going to get one at some point. Might as well be before the election...

I guess it wouldn't serve your personal political agenda if we had a recession after the election?

Some economists are predicting one in 2020 and some are predicting one in 2021. Economists were predicting one in 2015 and in the first year of Trumps presidency in 2016 in 2011-2012.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
According to Trumpworld, the US economy has taken off as a result of Donald Trump's presidency. But what do the facts say? Let's review.


View attachment 36455


View attachment 36456


View attachment 36457


Source: US economy under Trump: The greatest ever?

So those are the facts. We can all have our own opinions - but we cannot have our own facts.

Below, is my opinion. What is yours?

===

Personally, I do not give the president much credit for the health of the US economy. Whether we are talking about Clinton, GW Bush, Obama, or Trump, the economy is cyclical and not entirely predictable, and much of what happens is a consequence of events and policies that pre-dated each president.

For example, since Obama took office, the US has gone from being a net oil importer, to the world's largest oil and gas producer. The US now produces more oil than Saudi Arabia. It is hard to over-state the immense economic - not to mention strategic - value created by unlocking and unleashing one of the world's most valuable resources, which now constitutes nearly 20% of global production (setting aside its long-term negative impacts on climate). This had nothing to do with any policies put in place by Obama or Trump. They just happened to be in charge when this occurred, and did nothing to stop it from continuing.

There is no arguing that the US economy is doing well under Trump. He is entitled to due credit for not inverting the trend, and for confronting China, which both parties agreed needed to happen. He also gets credit for not embroiling us in another costly war.

But, it is certainly debatable the extent to which the positive economic trends when Obama left office, continued under Trump in spite of, rather than because of, his economic initiatives: namely, trade wars, renegotiating NAFTA, and his foreign policy.

His tax cuts, for example, undoubtedly increased stock prices. But the benefits disproportionately accrued to the wealthy. And it was paid for by ballooning the deficit. So it will likely be future, average Americans who will be disproportionately burdened when that debt comes due, in reduced services and/or higher taxes.

Finally, it is difficult to give Trump credit for things like the unemployment rate - which is indeed low - when he has proven himself to be a shameless liar who misleads his own supporters on such topics. To wit: when Obama was leaving office, candidate Trump said the low unemployment then was the "greatest hoax in politics". Trump told his supporters that the "real" unemployment rate was +40% (really!) Today, naturally, he no longer doubts Labor Dept. figures.

Source: Donald Trump says the unemployment rate may be 42 percent

So, giving Trump credit for things he previously blatantly lied about, and today exaggerates, IMO, is like giving a snake oil salesman credit for a genuine medical recovery. He is an economic charlatan. We are lucky his potions have not yet done more harm.
I find it rather difficult to take the claims of an egomaniac seriously.
Especially after he tried to take credit for the number of new cancer patients being at an all time low.

"This is the year 2020, no other president has ever gotten the US into such a high number year!"
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
That claim I challenge. His stupidity lead to an attack on bases housing US troops, and a commercial airliner was mistakenly shot down. The ensuing public opinion and pressure from Iranians seemed to have enforced to the Iran state "you ****ed up." I give credit to those wrongly murdered for averting a war. Trump made a move, Iran shot back, but missed, made a nasty blunder, and seemed to have left it at that.

The real order of operations: Iran was screwing with us for awhile, Trump let them know that was enough, and the they shot back because OMG we're looking weak.

As far as civilian airliners there is no excuse -- every single one of them is equipped with a transponder that not only identifies things like the airline operating the plane but the type of aircraft, the nation which it flies out of, and nearly anything else about it that is relevant. While it's certainly less safe to fly a civilian aircraft in such a zone, normally, neither side of a conflict will fire upon these types of craft because of this and they are generally safe even when all other mechanisms of travel might not be. :D

Anyway, regardless of any casualties in Iraq at that airbase it would be worth it to trade for Solemeni -- he was causing far more damage than you could easily count.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
According to Trumpworld, the US economy has taken off as a result of Donald Trump's presidency. But what do the facts say? Let's review.


View attachment 36455


View attachment 36456


View attachment 36457


Source: US economy under Trump: The greatest ever?

So those are the facts. We can all have our own opinions - but we cannot have our own facts.

Below, is my opinion. What is yours?

===

Personally, I do not give the president much credit for the health of the US economy. Whether we are talking about Clinton, GW Bush, Obama, or Trump, the economy is cyclical and not entirely predictable, and much of what happens is a consequence of events and policies that pre-dated each president.

For example, since Obama took office, the US has gone from being a net oil importer, to the world's largest oil and gas producer. The US now produces more oil than Saudi Arabia. It is hard to over-state the immense economic - not to mention strategic - value created by unlocking and unleashing one of the world's most valuable resources, which now constitutes nearly 20% of global production (setting aside its long-term negative impacts on climate). This had nothing to do with any policies put in place by Obama or Trump. They just happened to be in charge when this occurred, and did nothing to stop it from continuing.

There is no arguing that the US economy is doing well under Trump. He is entitled to due credit for not inverting the trend, and for confronting China, which both parties agreed needed to happen. He also gets credit for not embroiling us in another costly war.

But, it is certainly debatable the extent to which the positive economic trends when Obama left office, continued under Trump in spite of, rather than because of, his economic initiatives: namely, trade wars, renegotiating NAFTA, and his foreign policy.

His tax cuts, for example, undoubtedly increased stock prices. But the benefits disproportionately accrued to the wealthy. And it was paid for by ballooning the deficit. So it will likely be future, average Americans who will be disproportionately burdened when that debt comes due, in reduced services and/or higher taxes.

Finally, it is difficult to give Trump credit for things like the unemployment rate - which is indeed low - when he has proven himself to be a shameless liar who misleads his own supporters on such topics. To wit: when Obama was leaving office, candidate Trump said the low unemployment then was the "greatest hoax in politics". Trump told his supporters that the "real" unemployment rate was +40% (really!) Today, naturally, he no longer doubts Labor Dept. figures.

Source: Donald Trump says the unemployment rate may be 42 percent

So, giving Trump credit for things he previously blatantly lied about, and today exaggerates, IMO, is like giving a snake oil salesman credit for a genuine medical recovery. He is an economic charlatan. We are lucky his potions have not yet done more harm.

Gaddafi was like that.. Forever taking credit for what King Idris did. He too was a delusional pompous ***.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
That claim I challenge. His stupidity lead to an attack on bases housing US troops, and a commercial airliner was mistakenly shot down. The ensuing public opinion and pressure from Iranians seemed to have enforced to the Iran state "you ****ed up." I give credit to those wrongly murdered for averting a war. Trump made a move, Iran shot back, but missed, made a nasty blunder, and seemed to have left it at that.
Aye, his foreign policies have been dangerous.
But he gets 10% partial credit for backing down from nascent war.
So he gets a an E+ instead of an F for foreign policy.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
According to Trumpworld, the US economy has taken off as a result of Donald Trump's presidency. But what do the facts say? Let's review.


View attachment 36455


View attachment 36456


View attachment 36457


Source: US economy under Trump: The greatest ever?

So those are the facts. We can all have our own opinions - but we cannot have our own facts.

Below, is my opinion. What is yours?

===

Personally, I do not give the president much credit for the health of the US economy. Whether we are talking about Clinton, GW Bush, Obama, or Trump, the economy is cyclical and not entirely predictable, and much of what happens is a consequence of events and policies that pre-dated each president.

For example, since Obama took office, the US has gone from being a net oil importer, to the world's largest oil and gas producer. The US now produces more oil than Saudi Arabia. It is hard to over-state the immense economic - not to mention strategic - value created by unlocking and unleashing one of the world's most valuable resources, which now constitutes nearly 20% of global production (setting aside its long-term negative impacts on climate). This had nothing to do with any policies put in place by Obama or Trump. They just happened to be in charge when this occurred, and did nothing to stop it from continuing.

There is no arguing that the US economy is doing well under Trump. He is entitled to due credit for not inverting the trend, and for confronting China, which both parties agreed needed to happen. He also gets credit for not embroiling us in another costly war.

But, it is certainly debatable the extent to which the positive economic trends when Obama left office, continued under Trump in spite of, rather than because of, his economic initiatives: namely, trade wars, renegotiating NAFTA, and his foreign policy.

His tax cuts, for example, undoubtedly increased stock prices. But the benefits disproportionately accrued to the wealthy. And it was paid for by ballooning the deficit. So it will likely be future, average Americans who will be disproportionately burdened when that debt comes due, in reduced services and/or higher taxes.

Finally, it is difficult to give Trump credit for things like the unemployment rate - which is indeed low - when he has proven himself to be a shameless liar who misleads his own supporters on such topics. To wit: when Obama was leaving office, candidate Trump said the low unemployment then was the "greatest hoax in politics". Trump told his supporters that the "real" unemployment rate was +40% (really!) Today, naturally, he no longer doubts Labor Dept. figures.

Source: Donald Trump says the unemployment rate may be 42 percent

So, giving Trump credit for things he previously blatantly lied about, and today exaggerates, IMO, is like giving a snake oil salesman credit for a genuine medical recovery. He is an economic charlatan. We are lucky his potions have not yet done more harm.

When it comes to perceptions of the economy and who we might blame or give credit to, it's largely personalized. An individual may not worry so much about 10% unemployment if they themselves have a job. Likewise, an individual might think things are bad even at 3% unemployment, if they happen to be one of those unemployed.

There are also other indicators, other facts, which one might look at in order to gauge the overall health of the economy and what direction we're headed. The trade deficit, for example:

Trade%20Balance%20graphic.png


As we can see, back in the "good old days" when America was still "great" and the economy flourished, the trade deficit was at or near zero. But as it started to sink, the US economy also became flatter.

Another key indicator is real wages, which show a consistent rise up until the early 1970s, and then it started to go down and stagnate.

United_States_real_wages_%28red%2C_in_constant_2017_dollars%29.png


These are long-term considerations which can't be attributed to or blamed on any single president, since multiple administrations in both parties have supported the same basic economic policies which led to the situation we're facing now.

The only thing in the economic realm that Trump has done which can be seen as a major departure from his predecessors is his imposition of tariffs and push for new trade deals. He claims that he made better deals for America and accused his predecessors of being weak and not tough enough to negotiate a good deal for America. He still apparently believes in the open free trade globalist system, just as his predecessors and leaders from both parties still do. However, I'm still skeptical as to whether it's really a better deal for America.
 
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