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The true test of a religion

Geoff-Allen

Resident megalomaniac
I vaguely remember read a quote along these lines:

The true test of a good religion is whether you can make a joke about it.

What do you think? Does God have a sense-of-humour? If so, why are there so few gags in the Bible?
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Your OP reminds me of Voltaire: “God is a comedian playing to an audience that is too afraid to laugh.”

So far as I've discovered, Zen is the religion that's least afraid to laugh at itself -- although the humor is often quite subtle. After Zen, Judaism, in my opinion.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Japanese Zen master Oda Sesso (1901-66), abbot of Kyoto's Daitokuji monastery, warned, “There is little to choose between a man lying in the ditch heavily drunk on rice liquor, and a man heavily drunk on his own ‘enlightenment’!”

Some monks were sitting quietly in the garden of a Buddhist monastery on a calm, beautiful day. The prayer flag on the roof started fluttering and flapping in a breeze. A young monk observed: “Flag is flapping.” Another monk said: “Wind is flapping the flag.” The Chan master Huineng (whom Southern School Chan regards as 6th Patriarch), overhearing the two monks talking, declared: “It is your minds that are flapping.” Centuries later another famous Chan monk, Wumen Huikai (1183-1260), commented on this episode: “Flag, wind, minds flapping. Several mouths were flapping!”

A wise old Zen master, very near death, lay quietly on his mat with his eyes closed, all his disciples gathered around. Kneeling closest to him was his number one disciple, a longtime practitioner who would succeed the old man as head of the monastery. At one point the old master opened his eyes, and lovingly gazed at each and every one of his disciples assembled in the crowded room. Finally his glance rested on his successor, and he managed to speak his last words to the man: “Ah, my son, you have a very thorough knowledge of the teachings and scriptures, and you have shown great discipline in keeping the precepts. Your behavior has, in fact, been flawless. Yet there is one more thing remaining to be cleared up: you still reek and stink of ‘Zen’!”

When Tesshu (1836-88), the famous Japanese samurai master of the sword, was young and headstrong, he visited one Zen master after another. Once he went to visit Master Dokuon and triumphantly announced to him the classic Buddhist teaching that all that exists is empty, there is really no you or me, and so on. The master listened to all this in silence. Suddenly he snatched up his pipe and struck Tesshu’s head with it. The infuriated young swordsman would have killed the master there and then, but Dokuon said calmly, “Emptiness is sure quick to show anger, is it not?” Tesshu left the room, realizing he still had much to learn about Zen. He later became fully enlightened and founded the art of “no-sword.”

An old Zen saying: “In matters of religion, most persons prefer chewing the menu to actually eating the food!”

A student went to see his meditation teacher and said, “My situation is horrible! I feel so distracted most of the time, or my legs ache, or I’m repeatedly falling asleep. It’s terrible.” Said the teacher matter-of-factly, “It will pass.”

A week later, the student returned to his teacher. “My meditation is wonderful! I feel so ecstatically joyous and alive!” The teacher told him, “It will pass.”

On the terrace of a small temple high in the mountains, an old Zen Buddhist monk stood next to his much younger disciple while they both contemplated the great Void of misty space out yonder. Referring to the Void, the old monk at one point gently declared: "Ah, my son, one day all of this will be yours."
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
A monk asked master Xuefeng Yicun (Hsueh-Feng, 822-908) what were the essential teachings of the Buddha and holy Patriarchs. Old Feng replied, “The Buddha is a bull-headed jail-keeper and the Patriarchs are horse-faced old maids!”

Concerning terms for enlightenment and liberation like “Bodhi,” “Nirvana,” etc., Chinese Chan master Linji Yixuan (Lin-chi I-hsuan, d.867) is alleged by later sources to have said: “These words are a stake to which donkeys are fastened!”

The famous Zen abbess of the 20th century, Rev. Shundo Aoyama relates (in her book Zen Seeds): “The Zen term kanshiketsu literally means ‘****-stick.’ In China, a monk calling on Zen Master Yun-men asked, ‘What is a buddha?’ Yun-men replied, ‘A dried ****-stick.’ When the abbot or any of the teachers is away from a temple for a week or so, the novices think nothing of it. But if there were no toilet paper, they would quickly feel its absence! ****-sticks, which were used in former days for the same purpose, could be washed and re-used any number of times. ****-sticks become dirty to clean us. If these are not buddhas, what is? Out of gratitude for them, I recognize the ****-stick as a buddha.”
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
So wisely unattached are the Zen masters to the elements of their own tradition, that the great Zen painter Sengaku (1750-1837) could sketch an image—almost incredible in the context of most other religions—of a monk leaning over to relieve himself of intestinal gas, with the accompanying calligraphy inscription: “One Hundred Days of Buddhist Spiritual Teaching!”
 

Geoff-Allen

Resident megalomaniac
So wisely unattached are the Zen masters to the elements of their own tradition, that the great Zen painter Sengaku (1750-1837) could sketch an image—almost incredible in the context of most other religions—of a monk leaning over to relieve himself of intestinal gas, with the accompanying calligraphy inscription: “One Hundred Days of Buddhist Spiritual Teaching!”

Keep em coming ...

:)
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
A monk asked Zhaozhou, “What is that which is spiritual?” The Master replied, “A puddle of pee in the Pure Land [of Amitabha Buddha].” The monk said, “I ask you to reveal it to me.” Zhaozhou said, “Don’t tempt me.”
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
I vaguely remember read a quote along these lines:

The true test of a good religion is whether you can make a joke about it.

What do you think? Does God have a sense-of-humour? If so, why are there so few gags in the Bible?

Depends on what manner or taste the joke is in....
 

Aldrnari

Active Member
Heathenry, I would say, is the least afraid. Hell, here's a poem about Loki by Alice Karlsdóttir as an example. :D

"Oh, the great gods of Asgard are noble and free,
They are upright and forthright (as great gods should be),
But there's one in their midst doesn't follow the rule --
That sly mischief-monger called Loki the Fool.

He lies and he pilfers, tells jokes that are crude,
He's raucous, he's ribald, he's rowdy, he's rude;
He tricks and he teases, though he's not really cruel --
Just don't turn your back on that Loki the Fool.

In grim Jotunheim, where the weather is freezin',
He mixed blood with Odin (and who knows the reason?)
They laughed and drank wine, went on gay escapades,
Fought wizards and trolls, and seduced fair young maids.

Now some think that here Odin made a mistake
By tying himself to this impudent rake;
But I'll tell you a fact (though it makes scholars mad) --
If the Allfather likes him, he can't be all bad.

Poor Lopt's reputation is not of the best;
He gave Sif a clip job without her behest;
He lifted from Freyja her most precious jewel;
And Thor's got his hands full when he rides with the Fool.

He stole Idun's apples (which wasn't too nice),
Sired monsters galore and put Balder on ice;
And the gods all berate him for what he has done --
Well, gee, can't a boy have a wee bit of fun?

They say he's corrupted and wicked indeed,
'Cause he mothered the Allfather's whimsical steed;
It's not he's perverted or easily led --
Let's just say he's not very choosy in bed.

He tried to enliven sedate Asgard's halls
By tying the beard of a goat to his balls;
And they say that his tongue's his most effective tool
(And that's why all the ladies love Loki the Fool).

To the end of all Time he'll roam free through the land,
And all things stir and change at the touch of his hand,
And when the world's old and no fun's left in store,
He'll blow it all up and start over once more.

Now scholars and such say he's captured and bound,
But just look at the world, you'll see he's still around,
For to live here without him would be just too cruel.
Oh Loki, we love you, dear Loki the Fool!"

There are plenty of stories in the Eddas that show the gods in a less than glamorous light. I suggest Lokasenna if you want to read one where Loki airs all the god's dirty laundry. It's very entertaining, and worth the read! ;)
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Two Rabbis argued late into the night about the existence of God, and, using strong arguments from the scriptures, ended up indisputably disproving His existence. The next day, one Rabbi was surprised to see the other walking into the shul for morning services.

"I thought we had agreed there was no God," he said.

"Yes, what does that have to do with it?" replied the other.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Strictly speaking, this isn't religious humor, but I think it's darkly hilarious:


Rabbi Altmann and his secretary were sitting in a coffeehouse in Berlin in 1935. "Herr Altmann," said his secretary, "I notice you're reading Der Stürmer! I can't understand why. A Nazi libel sheet! Are you some kind of masochist, or, God forbid, a self-hating Jew?"

"On the contrary, Frau Epstein. When I used to read the Jewish papers, all I learned about were pogroms, riots in Palestine, and assimilation in America. But now that I read Der Stürmer, I see so much more: that the Jews control all the banks, that we dominate in the arts, and that we're on the verge of taking over the entire world. You know – it makes me feel a whole lot better!"
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I particularly like the poems in "I Heard God Laughing: Renderings of Hafiz". Here's one about laughter:

What is laughter? What is laughter?
It is God waking up! O it is God waking up!
It is the sun poking its sweet head out
From behind a cloud
You have been carrying too long,
Veiling your eyes and heart.

It is Light breaking ground for a great Structure
That is your Real body- called Truth.

It is happiness applauding itself and then taking flight
To embrace everyone and everything in this world.

Laughter is the polestar
Held in the sky by our Beloved,
Who eternally says,

"Yes, dear ones, come this way,
Come this way toward Me and Love!

Come with your tender mouths moving
And your beautiful tongues conducting songs
And with your movements - your magic movements
Of hands and feet and glands and cells - Dancing!

Know that to God's Eye,
All movement is a Wondrous Language,
And Music - such exquisite, wild Music!"

O what is laughter, Hafiz?
What is this precious love and laughter
Budding in our hearts?

It is the glorious sound
Of a soul waking up!
 

Frater Sisyphus

Contradiction, irrationality and disorder
Discordianism alert! - (The serious revamped-Taoist, chaos religion that is disguised as a joke but only on the surface)

And yes, I am not afraid to laugh at the things that are religiously important to me.
 

Frater Sisyphus

Contradiction, irrationality and disorder
As a Hermeticist/Thelemite and practitioner of Magick, I think that the younger Chaos Magic(k) movement/occult subculture is a great lens to continuously re-evaluate myself - as some of the kinds of rituals people perform within it are bat**** bizarre but it takes a perspective or irrationality and self-deception as a method (or tool) from the offset - as it is very "post"-modern or reductionist in nature
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
In 1518 Cardinal da Cesena became Papal Master of Ceremonies.

After the completion of Michelangelo's The Last Judgment, da Cesena was appalled that Michelangelo had painted so many penises on the roof of the Sistine Chapel, saying of the fresco, "it was mostly disgraceful that in so sacred a place there should have been depicted all those nude figures, exposing themselves so shamefully", and that the painting was more suitable "for the public baths and taverns" than a Papal chapel.

He demanded that the penises be removed or covered over.

In response, Michelangelo pulled a huge vengeful prank: he worked Cesena's face into the painting as Minos, judge of the underworld. That would already be pretty bad, since Minos is a demon and Biagio da Cesena was a cardinal, but as you can see, Michelangelo also decided to paint the good cardinal butt naked with a giant snake biting him in the dick. The Cardinal is thus the only figure in the fresco who would appear to be at risk of losing his penis.

And in case the meaning wasn't sufficiently clear, he gave him the ears of a donkey along with manboobs.


Michelangelo-minos2.jpg


When Cesena complained to the Pope about this, the pontiff joked that since his jurisdiction did not extend to hell, the portrait would have to remain.

And so, with papal blessing, poor old Cardinal Cesena has stood naked and donkey-eared for almost 475 years in the Sistine Chapel, manboobies and all, depicted as one of Michelangelo's demons at the Gates of Hell.
 
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