the true merits of the vajrayana path .

[ratikala]

recently there have been many criticisms of practices with in tibetan buddhism ,

I hold and will always hold that any deviation from the path which disscredits buddhism should be avoided at all costs for fear that we loose sight of the teachings all together .


prehaps we could contribute to a thread examining the merits of tibetan buddhism on the strict proviso that we focus on preserving the benificial aspects of each tradition and do not become boged down in the negative aspects as in truth these are fallings from the path , we need to re establish that path , deliniate it clearly so that the practices may be preserved as they were intended .

I would respectfully ask that posters refrain from embittered attitudes and discuss in a constructive manner .

prehaps we could start by speaking on the aspects of tibetan buddhism which we feel to be benificial , what they mean to us , and why we value them ?
many thanks .

 

[Amandameko]

recently there have been many criticisms of practices with in tibetan buddhism ,

I hold and will always hold that any deviation from the path which disscredits buddhism should be avoided at all costs for fear that we loose sight of the teachings all together .


prehaps we could contribute to a thread examining the merits of tibetan buddhism on the strict proviso that we focus on preserving the benificial aspects of each tradition and do not become boged down in the negative aspects as in truth these are fallings from the path , we need to re establish that path , deliniate it clearly so that the practices may be preserved as they were intended .

I would respectfully ask that posters refrain from embittered attitudes and discuss in a constructive manner .

prehaps we could start by speaking on the aspects of tibetan buddhism which we feel to be benificial , what they mean to us , and why we value them ?
many thanks .

I am new to this tradition and would like to take away all the knowledge i can from senior members. Please enlighten me on anything i should know.

 

[Jainarayan]

I am also beginning to express an interest in incorporating some aspects of Vajrayana as well as Zen into my own sadhana to the extent they are not incompatible with Hinduism. So far I am seeing the meditative aspects as being quite compatible. I hope there's more information exchange.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

I have to admit some ignorance when it comes to Tibetan Buddhism specifically, and Vajrayana in general. I can offer what I know, but that's not much. Too bad Shuddasattva isn't around, he's a Tibetan Buddhist.

 

[SageTree]

I was pleased to find a 'voice' for my Way in the Jonang tradition in Vajrayana, even though an other school(s) w/in the Vajrayana tradition at large worked to stifle these teachings.

Today that same school has been very supportive to the Jonang tradition.

For this tradition, and many more reasons, I am grateful to the Vajrayana.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

The practice of Dzogchen in the Nyingmapa school of Tibetan Buddhism is almost a mirror of Zen. It's good to see this interplay within the various traditions of Buddhism.

 

[Jainarayan]

I think Odion is pretty well versed in Tibetan Buddhism. I hate to speak for him, but I think he is of a similar opinion as Shuddhasattva on the politics. If I am wrong I apologize. I hope Odion weighs in on this. I've had discussions with a few people in the past when I didn't know very much about anything Dharmic (I still can't claim much knowledge ) but now a lot of things are coming together and making sense. For this reason, among many, I like threads like this... to learn.

 

[SageTree]

The practice of Dzogchen in the Nyingmapa school of Tibetan Buddhism is almost a mirror of Zen. It's good to see this interplay within the various traditions of Buddhism.

Props to that as well. Another great gem.

I think Odion is pretty well versed in Tibetan Buddhism. I hate to speak for him, but I think he is of a similar opinion as Shuddhasattva on the politics. If I am wrong I apologize. I hope Odion weighs in on this. I've had discussions with a few people in the past when I didn't know very much about anything Dharmic (I still can't claim much knowledge ) but now a lot of things are coming together and making sense. For this reason, among many, I like threads like this... to learn.

Odion is actually who pointed me in the way of Jonang after a discussion about what is between Advaita Vendanta and Buddhism..... Jonang, for me fits the bill philosophically, very well, as there is an differing explanation of Buddha-nature and Emptiness.

Shentong the extrinsic emptiness or “other empty” tradition of Madhyamika, which is most closely associated with the Jonang school of Tibetan Buddhism, maintains that the absolute is not empty of itself (rang tong) but is empty of all other relative phenomena.

Rangtong literally means 'empty of self' - The followers of the Rangtong Madhyamika approach say that all phenomena, including the Buddha nature, are empty of their own essence. They therefore disagree with the Shentong approach, which, they say, falls into the extreme of eternalism.

sourced from: rigpawiki.org

Many blessings
:namaste

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Unfortunately, like Shuddhasattva, Odion has left us. We're losing all of our dharmic friends.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I'm still here.

 

[SageTree]

Unfortunately, like Shuddhasattva, Odion has left us. We're losing all of our dharmic friends.

Enygo was one that I was sad to see go personally, from people I can recall.

Luis is back though after a long time away.

Is Odion GONE or just AWAY?

I think what drew people away was the scripture thumping, mass quoting thereof and general arguing over this and that..... seems like completely the opposite of 'the point', if you ask me.

Admittedly that is why I stay away from a lot of the topics on RF period.

I came to learn. Not to be told 'I lost'... or 'need to take a side'.
That is, there are plenty of days I wonder what I'm still doing here....
But I usually remember when I talk to one of you good people here.

:namaste

Thanks for keeping the sparks alive.

 

[Jainarayan]

Odion is actually who pointed me in the way of Jonang after a discussion about what is between Advaita Vendanta and Buddhism..... Jonang, for me fits the bill philosophically, very well, as there is an differing explanation of Buddha-nature and Emptiness.

Many blessings
:namaste

Thanks prabhu. :namaste

Shentong the extrinsic emptiness or “other empty” tradition of Madhyamika, which is most closely associated with the Jonang school of Tibetan Buddhism, maintains that the absolute is not empty of itself (rang tong) but is empty of all other relative phenomena.

Zhentong: Emptiness & Buddhanature

A zhentong (gzhan stong) view is one that articulates how the ultimate nature of reality is free from or empty of everything "other" than its absolute nature. In other words, a zhentong view understands how one's own enlightened essence or buddhanature (tathagatagarbha) is devoid of everything false and superficial.

Zhentong as a view for meditation practice regards relative reality as empty of its own intrinsic existence while ultimate reality is understood to be pure and continuously radiant. The nature of relative reality is known as "emptiness" (sunyata, stong pa nyid), what is devoid of inherent substance, like a dream, an illusion, or a bubble in water. Phenomena's lack of an essence on the relative level is referred to as "rangtong," literally meaning what is "empty of itself."

Accordingly, transient tangible experiences are understood to remain devoid of any inherent substance as the ultimate boundless and luminous nucleus of buddhahood within all beings is regarded as intangible and invariant. This enlightened essence is identical to the indwelling permanently pure nature of awareness, and is understood to be the nature of mind devoid of its distorted perceptions. Likened to an embryo or a womb, this essence provides the possibility for living beings to be reborn into completely awakened beings.

Introduction to the Jonang | Jonang Foundation

With the exception of the last line this sounds very much like Brahman, the atman and moksha. The exception being that once moksha is attained, there is no rebirth. However, before moksha is attained, one can, in my understanding, be reborn as more and more enlightened and at higher levels. So maybe it's just the phrasing.

Have I nailed it?

 

[Jainarayan]

I'm sorry to see them go too.

I think what drew people away was the scripture thumping, mass quoting thereof

Yeah well, unfortunately I am occasionally guilty of that. But I like to think I use it to illustrate a point.

Admittedly that is why I stay away from a lot of the topics on RF period.

Advice I should heed.

 

[Jainarayan]

I'm still here.

:clap And we're the better for it.

 

[SageTree]

With the exception of the last line this sounds very much like Brahman, the atman and moksha. The exception being that once moksha is attained, there is no rebirth. However, before moksha is attained, one can, in my understanding, be reborn as more and more enlightened and at higher levels. So maybe it's just the phrasing.

In short... concerning the last line, you might say that it's the essence in the seed of hope for any of the 'higher' or 'awakened' states to take place, to be 'born', at all.

Maybe someone else can explain it better than I?
Maybe I can explain it better with another question or two?
Maybe I should get back to working on this class assignment

LOL.

SageTree

 

[Jainarayan]

I think I'm getting it, "it" being the overall picture. I won't say it hit me yet like a vajra out of the blue (ha! it means thunderbolt as well as diamond ). I think I agree that it draws things together for me, as does deity yoga with mantra japa. I'm coming to see why Buddhism is a continuation of, not a schism with Hinduism, as some would have you believe.

 

[SageTree]

Schisms are politics and pride, imo.
Life is a continuation of Life, right?

 

[Jainarayan]

Absolutely! :yes:

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

I'm still here.

HEY! I keep forgetting there are nearly as many Tibetan Buddhists here (or used to be) as there are (or used to be) Zen.

 

[SageTree]

I would say that 90% or better of the Buddhists here are a Mahayana Branch of some sort.