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The True Definition Of Atheism?

Euronymous

SSilence
What is the true definition of atheism? I mean, I know that I said that I was an atheist before, but I'm not actually sure what I should or shouldn't believe in, to be completely honest.

That being said, does anyone have any answers?

Edit (4/12/2018) — Thanks for the likes, guys; I really appreciate it.
 
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Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
@Euronymous, it seems that most people -- but not all -- define atheism in one or two ways. First, there is what some folks call "hard atheism", which is the positive belief there are no gods. Second, there is "soft atheism", which is a lack of any belief in gods.

Now some folks prefer one of those definitions over the other, and some folks use both definitions. Those who prefer one definition over the other sometimes go so far as to say that their preferred definition is the only true or right one but -- so far as I know -- they can't give a compelling reason why that would be so.

I myself accept either definition as useful at times.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
What is the true definition of atheism? I mean, I know that I said that I was an atheist before, but I'm not actually sure what I should or shouldn't believe in, to be completely honest.

That being said, does anyone have any answers?
As far as I can tell atheism is a lot of times "my family was crazy and made me do religion".'..
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Because atheism as a term has a lot of etymology and language history that question is a bit loaded. It really depends on how deep down the theological hole you want to go. Some people don't care about that aspect, some people do. I think the difference between the concept of atheism and ignostic, for example, is fasinating.

But my own usage of atheist it's a portion of a worldview which does not include a belief in a god or gods. Other stipulations like active rejection of god concepts vs waiting for evidence vs no concept of gods are subcategories under the atheism umbrella.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Nonsense.

I mean, that's the real definition of atheism.

The idea of atheism is underpinned by a strong idea of self-determination. Which is fine, there are agnostics, and even theists that don't particularly like an all-powerful God running their lives. This position is called maltheism, and is perfectly fine. It's OKAY to be mad at God for screwing your life. I don't think it's okay to lie, and say you don't believe in something when you do.
The unfortunate part of this is that... they all secretly believe in God/gods/something like that on some level and are in deep denial, so they go to logical stretches and absurdities versus just stop sweating it.

Let me give you an example: They spend an excess of their time mocking theists and religious types (especially Christians, but other groups too), and trying to discredit the idea of an afterlife. The fact of the matter is, is they simply did not believe in an afterlife and did not believe in God, they wouldn't argue with anyone. They would be either agnostic in the minor case, or religiously indifferent in the major case. A person who does not believe in something, simply does not believe in it. I don't believe in aliens, for instance. I'm not sure I go around telling people "Aliens don't exist! Listen everyone, don't believe in aliens, they aren't real. I know you think there's flying saucers, but there's not!" Something about protesting too much.

Human beings only get upset about something if it is personally meaningful to them.

So, let's look at this. They, far from not believing in God, either actively hate God or are afraid of some sort of rulership over their lives. (Ironically, they choose way worse rulers to their own life than some being who mainly deals in coincidence) Likewise, many atheists choose to disbelieve in Afterlife as a whole, because they fear that God will send them to Hell for their pathetically minor sins.

There's no proof there even is a Hell. The Bible refers to an outer darkness. But... it's more like Heaven's suburb, a place where you are near God, but not able to be in God's presence. In fact, the state of Hell, which is defined as "eternal separation from God" not eternal damnation, is something that is not even a thing.



Moreover, all of you that were told this by well-meaning scary dudes in the church, read this too.



If anyone is likely to go to Hell, it's the very people who talk the most about it! But in actual fact, Hell is more a state of mind. A person feeling unworthy might convince themselves of horrible things. But not believing in God will not help this in any regard. The solution is rather to feel decent, to develop self-esteem, to understand one's faults but not be eaten alive about them. This is the secular cure for inadequacy. The religious one is grace, which... I cannot explain the difference.

In essence, atheism is deep denial about one's own fears and insecurities couched in pseudo-scientific thinking, much more often than it is a legitimate indifference to religion.

All of what you say about atheists is true except when it isn't, which is in 99 cases out of a hundred.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Nonsense.

I mean, that's the real definition of atheism.

Wow. Okay, let me get comfortable, this is going to be mind blowing.

The idea of atheism is underpinned by a strong idea of self-determination. Which is fine, there are agnostics, and even theists that don't particularly like an all-powerful God running their lives. This position is called maltheism, and is perfectly fine. It's OKAY to be mad at God for screwing your life.

Yeah, I'd be interested in how you are defining agnosticism, but an agnostic who hates God appears to be a theist. As would anyone describing themselves as an atheist who hates God. It happens, no doubt. People mislabel themselves for the damndest reasons.

I don't think it's okay to lie, and say you don't believe in something when you do.

I dunno. I don't have an issue with any Jews who lied to the Nazis about their cultural and religious heritage during WW2. I realise you're trying to draw some sort of long bow to suggest every atheist on earth is a liar, but rather than finding that personally affronting, as well as ridiculous, I just figured I'd read the rest of your post and see if it held much water.

The unfortunate part of this is that... they all secretly believe in God/gods/something like that on some level and are in deep denial, so they go to logical stretches and absurdities versus just stop sweating it.

Wait a moment. Your arguing that atheists believe in something? Of course they do. Who the heck survives without any beliefs? This seems very strawman-ish.

Let me give you an example: They spend an excess of their time mocking theists and religious types (especially Christians, but other groups too), and trying to discredit the idea of an afterlife. The fact of the matter is, is they simply did not believe in an afterlife and did not believe in God, they wouldn't argue with anyone. They would be either agnostic in the minor case, or religiously indifferent in the major case. A person who does not believe in something, simply does not believe in it. I don't believe in aliens, for instance. I'm not sure I go around telling people "Aliens don't exist! Listen everyone, don't believe in aliens, they aren't real. I know you think there's flying saucers, but there's not!" Something about protesting too much.

More like something about privilege...
So, luckily for me, I live in Australia. I've also lived in New Zealand, and have spent time in Sweden. All three have sizeable Christian populations, but are largely secular countries. Atheism isn't exactly a hot button topic here, and most people wouldn't bother talking about it much.
Not everywhere is quite so lucky though.

In 13 countries, a death penalty can be applied, for example.

In 7 American states, there are still constitutional clauses banning atheists from holding public office. (luckily unenforceable as they contravene Federal Law)
Atheists are commonly reckoned as untrustworthy.
Creationism continues to be pushed into state schools via the science curriculum.

Even in my country, until recently, marriage equality was fought against due to religious belief (almost solely).

Ultimately, you don't get to have a say in what atheists are interested in, and want to speak about. You can disagree as you see fit...that is the entire premise of free speech. If it makes you feel any better, I don't get a say in what atheists are interested in and want to speak about either, despite being an atheist. Some of the atheist 'beliefs' that get espoused are cringe-worthy, ridiculous, and completely misrepresent me as a person. ('Brights', anyone???)

To belabour your example, you might not believe in UFOs, but you might find the topic quite interesting if 3 billion of your fellow humans did, and it started impacting on government policy, teaching curriculum, etc.

Human beings only get upset about something if it is personally meaningful to them.

Religion is entirely meaningful, and people's beliefs in God are entirely meaningful. They impact, in very concrete ways, the world around me.
Even looking at religion as a positive force, how can you consider something that motivates that many people to be meaningless in the lives of the people around them?
My mother and sister are both Christian. My dad is more the sort of agnostic you speak of. I'm an atheist. I see no reason to apologise, nor hide, nor lie about my beliefs, or lack thereof.

So, let's look at this. They, far from not believing in God, either actively hate God or are afraid of some sort of rulership over their lives. (Ironically, they choose way worse rulers to their own life than some being who mainly deals in coincidence) Likewise, many atheists choose to disbelieve in Afterlife as a whole, because they fear that God will send them to Hell for their pathetically minor sins.

I like to picture you strutting on a stage, preaching this to the converted. For surely that can be the only intended audience for such self-fulfilling logic?
You state your argument as fact without evidence, then proceed to nod along with yourself. It's mostly amusing, but there is a little bit of caricature there, intentional or not.

There's no proof there even is a Hell. The Bible refers to an outer darkness. But... it's more like Heaven's suburb, a place where you are near God, but not able to be in God's presence. In fact, the state of Hell, which is defined as "eternal separation from God" not eternal damnation, is something that is not even a thing.

You are now arguing that atheists actually believe in Hell, and that you, a believer, knows Hell isn't even a thing. And this makes sense to you?

In essence, atheism is deep denial about one's own fears and insecurities couched in pseudo-scientific thinking, much more often than it is a legitimate indifference to religion.

I'm not indifferent to religion at all. I just don't believe God exists.
*shrugs*

You're really overcomplicating things.
 

ArtieE

Well-Known Member
The idea of atheism is underpinned by a strong idea of self-determination.
There is no "idea of atheism". Theism is the belief in the existence of one or more gods, atheism is the absence of that belief. Otherwise there is nothing that unites all atheists and whatever else they might think is just their personal opinion.
They spend an excess of their time mocking theists and religious types (especially Christians, but other groups too), and trying to discredit the idea of an afterlife.
Some do, some don't. You don't need to do any of that to be an atheist.
In essence, atheism is deep denial about one's own fears and insecurities couched in pseudo-scientific thinking, much more often than it is a legitimate indifference to religion.
Everybody are 99.99% or more atheists. For example Christians. They don't believe in the existence of 99.99% of all gods, and there are thousands of gods. The reason they don't believe in Poseidon or Thor or Zeus is because they are in deep denial about their own fears and insecurities.
 
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Curious George

Veteran Member
What is the true definition of atheism? I mean, I know that I said that I was an atheist before, but I'm not actually sure what I should or shouldn't believe in, to be completely honest.

That being said, does anyone have any answers?
Popping in to put my vote toward the: atheism is the belief that the proposition "god exists" is not true.
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
What is the true definition of atheism?
”Atheism: N. A nocturnal burrowing rodent, indigenous to the South American rain forests. Rich flavour with a slightly nutty after-taste”.

Seriously, words are defined by use and mean whatever people are currently using it to mean. The massively varied use (and abuse) of the word atheism and those around it have led to multiple different definitions, more commonly used as tools of personal attack than for any serious etymological purpose.

And does it really matter? You’ll believe what you believe regardless of whether it means labels of “atheist”, “agnostic”, “clinically insane fantasists” or whatever are applied to you and the chances are some people will call you all of those things regardless of the specifics of your actual conclusions. You already have a label; Euronymous. Why not focus of giving that a meaningful definition. :D
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
What is the true definition of atheism? I mean, I know that I said that I was an atheist before, but I'm not actually sure what I should or shouldn't believe in, to be completely honest.

That being said, does anyone have any answers?
One without gods.
 
You say tomayto, I say tomato.

You think a(theism), I think (athe)ism.

You think absence of belief, I think presence of belief.

Discussions of the topic tend to be like...


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LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
@Sunstone has the right of it.

Myself, I think that it is simply more useful and less confusing to employ a wide definition based on "soft" atheism. And yes, I do say that atheism is the default and that rocks and babies are atheistic.

It is part of the logical consequences of my understanding of what theism - and by extension atheism - are. Neither is really a big deal, nor meant to, and both are intensely individual in nature.

I don't think there is "true" as opposed to a "favored" definition of atheism.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Atheism = not believing in gods.
This includes:
1) Weak atheism = agnostic disbelief
2) Strong atheism = There are no gods.
 

ArtieE

Well-Known Member
Atheism = not believing in gods.
This includes:
1) Weak atheism = agnostic disbelief
2) Strong atheism = There are no gods.

Atheism: Absence of belief in the existence of gods
1) Weak atheism = absence of belief in the existence of gods, absence of belief in the non-existence of gods
2) Strong atheism = absence of belief in the existence of gods, presence of belief in the non-existence of gods
 
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