The Trouble with Atheism.....

[Deeje]

Thoughts on the content of this video....well worth watching....(a bit over 45 mins)
A lot of interesting issues explored on science’s role in atheism.

Searching questions...interesting comments by scientists.....does science really “know” what it’s talking about...or does it just assume to know, based on its own pre-conceived ideas and resulting deductions?

Is atheism really just another religion, complete with its temples, its revered ones, and its scripture? Does it have its “fundie” evangelists, and it’s hate speech just like the churches it criticises?

Without reference to the presenter, please comment on just the content.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Thoughts on the content of this video....well worth watching....(a bit over 45 mins)
A lot of interesting issues explored on science’s role in atheism.

Searching questions...interesting comments by scientists.....does science really “know” what it’s talking about...or does it just assume to know, based on its own pre-conceived ideas and resulting deductions?

Is atheism really just another religion, complete with its temples, its revered ones, and its scripture? Does it have its “fundie” evangelists, and it’s hate speech just like the churches it criticises?

Without reference to the presenter, please comment on just the content.

I'd have to watch this later, but I do have to ask--how did you personally connect disbelief in deities existence (Jehovah, Vishnu, Thor, etc) to being another religion with temples and scripture?

I get it if you said many atheist "opinions" make it seem like a religion but that's totally different than referencing these things under atheism itself.

 

[Revoltingest]

I've no need to watch it to know atheism's troubles,
having lived them for 68 years (next month).
- No truth handed to me.
- No church to go to.
Of course, those troubles are also advantages.

 

[SomeRandom]

Thoughts on the content of this video....well worth watching....(a bit over 45 mins)
A lot of interesting issues explored on science’s role in atheism.

Searching questions...interesting comments by scientists.....does science really “know” what it’s talking about...or does it just assume to know, based on its own pre-conceived ideas and resulting deductions?

Is atheism really just another religion, complete with its temples, its revered ones, and its scripture? Does it have its “fundie” evangelists, and it’s hate speech just like the churches it criticises?

Without reference to the presenter, please comment on just the content.

I suppose new atheism is somewhat like it’s own little religion. Sort of.
And don’t forget a lot of followers of Dharmic religions are technically atheists, in the “Western sense” of the word anyway. The dichotomy of theism and atheism is actually more dependant on Abrahamic religions than anything else

 

[SomeRandom]

I've no need to watch it to know atheism's troubles,
having lived them for 68 years (next month).
- No truth handed to me.
- No church to go to.
Of course, those troubles are also advantages.

Sleeping in on Sunday’s are also a plus

 

[Deeje]

I'd have to watch this later, but I do have to ask--how did you personally connect disbelief in deities existence (Jehovah, Vishnu, Thor, etc) to being another religion with temples and scripture?

I get it if you said many atheist "opinions" make it seem like a religion but that's totally different than referencing these things under atheism itself.

The video explains it better than I could....and the visuals reinforce what is said. Please comment after you have seen it.


If atheism behaves just like a religion, then it deserves the label IMO.

 

[Revoltingest]

If atheism behaves just like a religion, then it deserves the label IMO.

Under US anti-discrimination law, atheism is a religion.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

I've no need to watch it to know atheism's troubles,
having lived them for 68 years (next month).
- No truth handed to me.
- No church to go to.
Of course, those troubles are also advantages.

no church?

lucky bummer

 

[Deeje]

I've no need to watch it to know atheism's troubles,
having lived them for 68 years (next month).

You're just a lad then.....(compared to me)

- No truth handed to me.

There comes a time when you have to learn to feed yourself.
Spoon feeding is for babies...

- No church to go to.

So what kept you from making your own evaluations by finding out what your options were?
Did you never wonder....what does it all mean?....anything.....or nothing?

Of course, those troubles are also advantages.

Yes....if you see them as stepping stones to learning.
But if you use them as excuses not to learn anything.....where will that take you?

In the dark is not a good place to be......unless your are a mushroom....

You might be a "fun guy" but who sees you in the dark but other mushrooms?

 

[Revoltingest]

You're just a lad then.....(compared to me)

There comes a time when you have to learn to feed yourself.
Spoon feeding is for babies...

So what kept you from making your own evaluations by finding out what your options were?
Did you never wonder....what does it all mean?....anything.....or nothing?


Yes....if you see them as stepping stones to learning.
But if you use them as excuses not to learn anything.....where will that take you?

In the dark is not a good place to be......unless your are a mushroom....

You might be a "fun guy" but who sees you in the dark but other mushrooms?

Bob & Ray are in a flat desert on a sunny day.
Bobs sees a mirage.
Ray doesn't.
Is Ray missing out on anything real?

 

[Nimos]

Is atheism really just another religion, complete with its temples, its revered ones, and its scripture? Does it have its “fundie” evangelists, and it’s hate speech just like the churches it criticises?

Without reference to the presenter, please comment on just the content.

I have seen it and I don't really get the impression that the host really understand atheism at all.

He keeps trying to push the idea that atheism is just another religion and uses books like the origin of species as some sort of bible, that different buildings are like temples etc. That is not the case, its about knowledge and search for truth based on what evidence there is for set truth. Science simply happens to be the method by which we establish truth. We have no other method!! The origin of species is not like a bible, its a book containing some ideas of how living things evolved, the whole industry that have tested and verified that evolution is a fact, is what convinces atheists that this is more likely than a God, for which we have no evidence at all.

Then he tries to pull off an argument that since scientists can't explain what happened before the big bang and neither can religious people, that both arguments are equally valid. Which is simply not true. Whether or not scientists can explain what happened before the big bang or not. Doesn't mean that religious people doesn't still have to provide their own proofs for God, simply leaning back as if their position is valid without evidence is a fallacy.

Also he tries to make the point, that atheism doesn't give any reason to be moral, which is completely nonsense, again given the fact, that religious people simply assume that God exists and that, that is somehow acceptable as a starting point and therefore this perfectly explain why morality comes from God, that is not a valid argument, it is simply an assumption without anything to back it up.

He also uses this as an argument to point out that atheism causes just as much death and destruction as religion does, which again is a rather poor argument, unless he can demonstrate that Stalin for instance, was motivated in what he did, was in fact driven by his lack of believe in a God and not simply because of him wanting power and control.

So I don't really think this host have made a lot of deep thoughts about this topic, most of his arguments are fallacious and the rest I think are easily disproved as being weak at best.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I'm not watching another 44 minutes of fairly typical, boilerplate Christian apologetics that's been done to death.

So to respond to the thread header itself, neither theism nor atheism are religions. Because a single yes/no answer is not enough to constitute a religion. There are, however, atheistic religions and theistic religions. But they need more substance than a football player who likes to watch and talk about football and habitually attend games. That indicates passion, not religion. Conflating the two makes religion a functionally useless term.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Bob & Ray are in a flat desert on a sunny day.
Bobs sees a mirage.
Ray doesn't.
Is Ray missing out on anything real?
but another doesn't see it

ok, I’ll be devil’s advocate:

it turns out to be a pond of fresh water

Bob goes and drinks

Ray dies of thirst

(i like being devil’s advocate, must be the devil in me, sorry)

 

[Twilight Hue]

Thoughts on the content of this video....well worth watching....(a bit over 45 mins)
A lot of interesting issues explored on science’s role in atheism.

Searching questions...interesting comments by scientists.....does science really “know” what it’s talking about...or does it just assume to know, based on its own pre-conceived ideas and resulting deductions?

Is atheism really just another religion, complete with its temples, its revered ones, and its scripture? Does it have its “fundie” evangelists, and it’s hate speech just like the churches it criticises?

Without reference to the presenter, please comment on just the content.

Just for a minute, picture atheism being touted before the concept of religion and the invention of God came around. Dosent make sense at all , does it?

No. The trouble is and lays with theism, when people one day decided to claim there is a God or God's to others.

 

[Deeje]

Bob & Ray are in a flat desert on a sunny day.
Bobs sees a mirage.
Ray doesn't.
Is Ray missing out on anything real?
but another doesn't see it

Perhaps Ray has knowledge of what happens in a flat desert.....he knows that mirages are not real.
Bob also knows that mirages aren't real......

The law of "cause and effect" means that whatever exists had to have a cause......we can see the effects of the Creator in his intelligently designed creation, so the "cause" for us is completely logical because "faith" lets you go there. If the natural world is all there is, then how do you explain the supernatural things that happen in the world?
Isn't the "Big Bang" the result of a supernatural event? What was there before the Big Bang? What "caused" it?

Now, what about science? How much "faith" do people have in science? I believe that evolution is a scientific delusion that requires as much "faith" as I do to believe in God.....and we both have the same evidence to evaluate, but with different beliefs, a different mindset and an interpretation that sits well.

Have you never wondered why people still say that they "believe" in evolution? If it were a provable fact, no "belief" would be needed.....would it?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

it turns out to be a pond of fresh water....

It can be....or, it could end up being a mouthful of sand. IMO.

There are so many religions, but remember what Jesus said in Matthew 7: “Narrow is the gate...to life, and few find it.”

Can you imagine, being an Aztec, where your religion....probably the only one they had....sacrificed people, by cutting their hearts out?

Certainly, the Creator (of all men - Acts of the Apostles 17:24-28) wouldn’t approve of that! Apparently, and it would make sense, He wants us to love each other. John 13:34-35 & Matthew 5:44 attest to this.

But, fast forward to today..... haven’t many religious leaders encouraged their congregations to support their countries during war?

That alone tells me something is wrong with the vast majority of religion.... these followers aren’t getting “fresh water” of truth; they are getting fed “sand,” = lies, from the “mirage.”



IMO, one needs to listen and obey God, to receive His blessings to understand His Word. This, too, “makes sense”. To me.

 

[Revoltingest]

ok, I’ll be devil’s advocate:

it turns out to be a pond of fresh water

Bob goes and drinks

Ray dies of thirst

(i like being devil’s advocate, must be the devil in me, sorry)

Reject my analogy, eh.
We have all the water we need here in MI.

 

[Revoltingest]

Perhaps Ray has knowledge of what happens in a flat desert.....he knows that mirages are not real.
Bob also knows that mirages aren't real......

The law of "cause and effect" means that whatever exists had to have a cause......we can see the effects of the Creator in his intelligently designed creation, so the "cause" for us is completely logical because "faith" lets you go there. If the natural world is all there is, then how do you explain the supernatural things that happen in the world?
Isn't the "Big Bang" the result of a supernatural event? What was there before the Big Bang? What "caused" it?

Now, what about science? How much "faith" do people have in science? I believe that evolution is a scientific delusion that requires as much "faith" as I do to believe in God.....and we both have the same evidence to evaluate, but with different beliefs, a different mindset and an interpretation that sits well.

Have you never wondered why people still say that they "believe" in evolution? If it were a provable fact, no "belief" would be needed.....would it?

Evolution is not a "belief" in the same sense that sky fairies
are a "belief". Evolution is observed in physical evidence,
& the theory of it has predictive value (ie, it's "useful).
Sky fairies are based upon feelings, & aren't subject to
physical testing, ie, there are no falsifiable experiments
to test the supernatural.

 

[SigurdReginson]

I really don't have 45 mins of time to watch a video... I gotta get ready and go to bed so I can get up at 4 am and do another 12 hour shift. Maybe you could just post a TLDW?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Wow, Deeje, this is excellent! I posted a comment(about religion) before I began watching the video, and the video started off on religion! Just what I did! (I feel vindicated. lol)

But in general, religion has shot themselves in the foot so to speak. Many people are sick of the hypocrisy. These institutions have unwittingly turned many away onto other paths, most notably onto philosophies of science.

I like the word used in the video, “conditioned.” That really fits! To people on both sides of the issue!


I’m only about 18 mins. in. I’m gonna finish watching it now. TTYL.