The trinity?????

[Norman]

But the trinity is said to be more than symbolism or imagery. It's said to be a fact.

Norman: Hi Skwim, I understand that the trinity to you is a fact. I cannot find it in the New Testament, three entities into one person. The Holy Ghost is spirit, it does not have a physical body.
1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

 

[Norman]

If you are a trinitarian I have a question for you.
We know that God knows all things, is all powerful, and is eternal.

I also know that all 3 persons of the trinity are fully god meaning they all have these attributes that make them fully god.
according to matthew 24:36 "only the father knows the day and the hour"
I can understand jesus had 2 natures, but if the holy spirit is god, why does he not know the day or the hour if he did not take on flesh?

Norman: Hi Paul Chavez, I have to apologize, I just realized that you were talking to Trinitarian's of which I am not, so, please disregard my post's. I take leave of this thread.

 

[Norman]

Exactly my point if the holy spirit lacks being all knowing, then he cannot be called god.
I like your illustration by the way. Great way to put it.

Norman: Hi Paul Chavez, I did not know that Jehovah Witnesses were Trinitarians?

 

[Desert Snake]

Exactly because the trinity is a false teaching.

I think you would need to give a concise definition of the trinity, before declaring it a false teaching.

 

[kerndog]

Exactly because the trinity is a false teaching.

AMEN !! Biggest bunch of Greek philosophical Hooey ever concocted by the catholic church, and still being dragged around by the protestants !!

 

[anonymous9887]

But you said "But they [the father, so, and holy spirit] are all still fully god." "100% god."

Ok sorry. The father is 100% god, the holy spirit and Jesus are the fathers instruments

 

[anonymous9887]

I think you would need to give a concise definition of the trinity, before declaring it a false teaching.

Any type of theology that claims the holy spirit and Jesus are god in the same exclusive sense as the father.

 

[Skwim]

Norman: Hi Skwim, I understand that the trinity to you is a fact. I cannot find it in the New Testament, three entities into one person. The Holy Ghost is spirit, it

Not a fact to me, I'm an agnostic, but to others.

 

[Norman]

Not a fact to me, I'm an agnostic, but to others.

Norman: Hi Skim, Sorry about that

 

[Skwim]

Norman: Hi Skim, Sorry about that

No harm done.

 

[Muffled]

AMEN !! Biggest bunch of Greek philosophical Hooey ever concocted by the catholic church, and still being dragged around by the protestants !!

I believe your characterizations have very little truth. It is true that the NT is written in Greek but that does not prove that the source of the philosophy is Greek. The NT does have some philosophy but that is not all that it contains. I don't think there is any evidence of hooey and I challenge you to provide some. The Roman Catholic Church helped establish an orthodox view of the Bible but their were plenty of aberrant views among people. It is not difficult to find Biblical sources for the Trinity so there is no way it was concocted. Protestants also examine the Bible so it is not surprising that they develop the same view.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Atheists that support a belief in the Trinity, you never cease to amaze me RF posters!!

Haha. I know this is late.. but it just makes complete sense. Like an adult doing basic math even though he doesn't care for mathematics. Christians make things sooo complicated. Just because its spiritual doesn't mean it needs to be "metaphysical with special words". It's just life.

Let go the reigns.

 

[Isaiah Torres]

If you are a trinitarian I have a question for you.
We know that God knows all things, is all powerful, and is eternal.

I also know that all 3 persons of the trinity are fully god meaning they all have these attributes that make them fully god.
according to matthew 24:36 "only the father knows the day and the hour"
I can understand jesus had 2 natures, but if the holy spirit is god, why does he not know the day or the hour if he did not take on flesh?

The Father is Jesus Christ the Son was Jesus Christ the Holy Ghost is Jesus Christ its not 3 but all 1 & Jesus Christ is he

 

[Lyndon]

oh brother, that is definitely not in the bible!!

 

[MJFlores]

If you are a trinitarian I have a question for you.
We know that God knows all things, is all powerful, and is eternal.

I also know that all 3 persons of the trinity are fully god meaning they all have these attributes that make them fully god.
according to matthew 24:36 "only the father knows the day and the hour"
I can understand jesus had 2 natures, but if the holy spirit is god, why does he not know the day or the hour if he did not take on flesh?

Further investigation of the Trinity doctrine would reveal that proponents of the belief that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are also God admit that these teachings are not found in the Bible.

Raymond E. Brown, in his book, Jesus: God and Man, states:

"Jesus is never called God in the Synoptic Gospels, and a passage like Mk. 10:18 would seem to preclude the possibility that Jesus used the title of himself. Even the fourth Gospel never portrays Jesus as saying specifically that he is God. The sermons which Acts attributes to the beginning of the Christian mission do not speak of Jesus as God. Thus, there is no reason to think that Jesus was called God in the earliest layers of New Testament tradition. This negative conclusion is substantiated by the fact that Paul does not use it in the title in an epistle written before 58." (p. 30)

In fact, the teaching that Christ is God was only made by the Catholic Church in 325 A.D. at the Council of Nicaea, years after the Lord Jesus Christ had ascended to heaven and after the death of the apostles:

"Thus, for example, it was not until 325 A.D., at the Council of Nicaea, that The Church defined for us that it was an article of faith Jesus is truly God." (Discourses on the Apostles Creed, p.30)

The teaching that God has a third person in the form of the Holy Spirit cannot also be found anywhere in the Bible.

Joseph Pohle admits this fact in his book,The divine Trinity. He said:

"THE NAME GOD APPLIED TO THE HOLY GHOST.-Although the Bible nowhere expressly calls the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity God".

The teaching that the Holy Spirit is God was also made by the Catholic Church in the 381 at the Council of Constantinople. Clement H. Crock says:

"In 381, at the Council of Constantinople, it was defined that it is an article of faith that the Holy Ghost is God." (p. 206)

After these two proclamations of faith by the Catholic Church, the stage was set for them to teach the unbiblical Trinity doctrine. The most complete formulation of the Trinity doctrine can be traced back to the seventh century. Ludwig Ott attests to this in his book, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma:

"The most complete formulation of the doctrine of the Trinity in a Creed since the times of the Fathers is found in the Symbol of the 11th Synod of Toledo (675), which is composed mosaic-like out of the texts from the Fathers (above all St. Augustine, St. Fulgentius, St. Isidore of Seville) and the former Synods (especially that of the 6th Synod of Toledo, 638). D 275-281." (p. 53)

Ironically, thought the Catholic Church openly admits that the teaching that Christ and the Holy Spirit are the second and third persons, respectively, cannot be found in the Holy Scriptures, they continue to uphold the belief that there is one God with three divine persons. If the Trinity doctrine were really taught by the Lord Jesus Christ and the apostles, it wouldnt have taken two councils and many years to formulate this doctrine.

It amusing to know that even Catholic authorities themselves are baffled by their own doctrine and cannot explain why the one God would be composed of three persons-and how three persons can only equal one, and how one can be composed of three. Martin J. Scott, author of God and Myself, has this to say:

"The Trinity is a wonderful mystery. No one understands it. The most learned theologian, the holiest Pope, the greatest saint, all are as mystified by it as the child of seven. It is one of the things which we shall know only when we meet God face to face." (p. 118)

Thus, the belief in the triune God is not only not found in the Scriptures but a direct opposition to the teachings of the Bible concerning God.

 

[syo]

If you are a trinitarian I have a question for you.
We know that God knows all things, is all powerful, and is eternal.

I also know that all 3 persons of the trinity are fully god meaning they all have these attributes that make them fully god.
according to matthew 24:36 "only the father knows the day and the hour"
I can understand jesus had 2 natures, but if the holy spirit is god, why does he not know the day or the hour if he did not take on flesh?

the holy spirit does not have a will on it's own. father is the mastermind not the holy spirit.

 

[Muffled]

Further investigation of the Trinity doctrine would reveal that proponents of the belief that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are also God admit that these teachings are not found in the Bible.

View attachment 17126
Raymond E. Brown, in his book, Jesus: God and Man, states:

"Jesus is never called God in the Synoptic Gospels, and a passage like Mk. 10:18 would seem to preclude the possibility that Jesus used the title of himself. Even the fourth Gospel never portrays Jesus as saying specifically that he is God. The sermons which Acts attributes to the beginning of the Christian mission do not speak of Jesus as God. Thus, there is no reason to think that Jesus was called God in the earliest layers of New Testament tradition. This negative conclusion is substantiated by the fact that Paul does not use it in the title in an epistle written before 58." (p. 30)

In fact, the teaching that Christ is God was only made by the Catholic Church in 325 A.D. at the Council of Nicaea, years after the Lord Jesus Christ had ascended to heaven and after the death of the apostles:

View attachment 17127
"Thus, for example, it was not until 325 A.D., at the Council of Nicaea, that The Church defined for us that it was an article of faith Jesus is truly God." (Discourses on the Apostles Creed, p.30)

The teaching that God has a third person in the form of the Holy Spirit cannot also be found anywhere in the Bible.

View attachment 17128
Joseph Pohle admits this fact in his book,The divine Trinity. He said:

"THE NAME GOD APPLIED TO THE HOLY GHOST.-Although the Bible nowhere expressly calls the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity God".

The teaching that the Holy Spirit is God was also made by the Catholic Church in the 381 at the Council of Constantinople. Clement H. Crock says:

"In 381, at the Council of Constantinople, it was defined that it is an article of faith that the Holy Ghost is God." (p. 206)

After these two proclamations of faith by the Catholic Church, the stage was set for them to teach the unbiblical Trinity doctrine. The most complete formulation of the Trinity doctrine can be traced back to the seventh century. Ludwig Ott attests to this in his book, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma:

View attachment 17129
"The most complete formulation of the doctrine of the Trinity in a Creed since the times of the Fathers is found in the Symbol of the 11th Synod of Toledo (675), which is composed mosaic-like out of the texts from the Fathers (above all St. Augustine, St. Fulgentius, St. Isidore of Seville) and the former Synods (especially that of the 6th Synod of Toledo, 638). D 275-281." (p. 53)

Ironically, thought the Catholic Church openly admits that the teaching that Christ and the Holy Spirit are the second and third persons, respectively, cannot be found in the Holy Scriptures, they continue to uphold the belief that there is one God with three divine persons. If the Trinity doctrine were really taught by the Lord Jesus Christ and the apostles, it wouldnt have taken two councils and many years to formulate this doctrine.

It amusing to know that even Catholic authorities themselves are baffled by their own doctrine and cannot explain why the one God would be composed of three persons-and how three persons can only equal one, and how one can be composed of three. Martin J. Scott, author of God and Myself, has this to say:

View attachment 17130
"The Trinity is a wonderful mystery. No one understands it. The most learned theologian, the holiest Pope, the greatest saint, all are as mystified by it as the child of seven. It is one of the things which we shall know only when we meet God face to face." (p. 118)

Thus, the belief in the triune God is not only not found in the Scriptures but a direct opposition to the teachings of the Bible concerning God.

I believe your conclusion is false because your premises are false.

 

[Muffled]

the holy spirit does not have a will on it's own. father is the mastermind not the holy spirit.

I believe the Holy Spirit has two minds. The mind of the person He inhabits and His own mind.

 

[MJFlores]

I believe your conclusion is false because your premises are false.

False preachers do not understand what they preach. Concerning them, the Apostle Paul said:

“They want to be teachers of God's law, but they do not understand their own words or the matters about which they speak with so much confidence.” (I Timothy 1:7 TEV)

False teachers “do not understand their own words or the matters about which they speak.” Regarding the Trinity doctrine this is what Catholic priests admitted about it:

“The Trinity is a wonderful mystery. No one understands it. The most learned theologian, the holiest Pope, the greatest saint, all are mystified by it as the child of seven.” (Martin J. Scott, S.J., God and Myself, p. 118)

As Catholic priests themselves admitted, the “Trinity” (which Catholic theologians, popes, bishops, and priests boldly preach) is a “mystery” that “No one understand it” even the most learned theologians, the “holiest Pope” and the “greatest saint.” They further admitted that “all are mystified by it as a child of seven.” Catholic theologians, popes and saints preaching the “Trinity” without understanding it? This is what the Bible says about them, quoting again I Timothy 1:7, this time from Revised Standard Version:

“Desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make assertions.” (I Timothy 1:7, RSV)

Thus, those who preach the Trinity doctrine are the false preachers, not only that they don’t understand their Trinity doctrine, but that this doctrine they uphold contradicts the teachings of the true preachers like the Lord Jesus Christ and the apostles.

 

[Muffled]

View attachment 17303

False preachers do not understand what they preach. Concerning them, the Apostle Paul said:

“They want to be teachers of God's law, but they do not understand their own words or the matters about which they speak with so much confidence.” (I Timothy 1:7 TEV)

False teachers “do not understand their own words or the matters about which they speak.” Regarding the Trinity doctrine this is what Catholic priests admitted about it:
View attachment 17304

“The Trinity is a wonderful mystery. No one understands it. The most learned theologian, the holiest Pope, the greatest saint, all are mystified by it as the child of seven.” (Martin J. Scott, S.J., God and Myself, p. 118)

As Catholic priests themselves admitted, the “Trinity” (which Catholic theologians, popes, bishops, and priests boldly preach) is a “mystery” that “No one understand it” even the most learned theologians, the “holiest Pope” and the “greatest saint.” They further admitted that “all are mystified by it as a child of seven.” Catholic theologians, popes and saints preaching the “Trinity” without understanding it? This is what the Bible says about them, quoting again I Timothy 1:7, this time from Revised Standard Version:

“Desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make assertions.” (I Timothy 1:7, RSV)

Thus, those who preach the Trinity doctrine are the false preachers, not only that they don’t understand their Trinity doctrine, but that this doctrine they uphold contradicts the teachings of the true preachers like the Lord Jesus Christ and the apostles.

I believe your conclusion does not follow from the premise. I believe you are a false teacher for teaching things that are contrary to what the Bible says.