1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured The trinity?????

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by anonymous9887, Nov 30, 2015.

  1. anonymous9887

    anonymous9887 bible reader

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,648
    Ratings:
    +115
    Religion:
    unknown
    If you are a trinitarian I have a question for you.
    We know that God knows all things, is all powerful, and is eternal.

    I also know that all 3 persons of the trinity are fully god meaning they all have these attributes that make them fully god.
    according to matthew 24:36 "only the father knows the day and the hour"
    I can understand jesus had 2 natures, but if the holy spirit is god, why does he not know the day or the hour if he did not take on flesh?
     
  2. anonymous9887

    anonymous9887 bible reader

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,648
    Ratings:
    +115
    Religion:
    unknown
    Exactly because the trinity is a false teaching.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    24,684
    Ratings:
    +9,202
    Religion:
    Agnostic
  4. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    23,815
    Ratings:
    +7,817
    Touch down!?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Pyrphóros ⚡ Lux Aeterna
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    26,547
    Ratings:
    +12,398
    Religion:
    Olympianism (Greco-Roman polytheism) / Left-Hand Path
    He was speaking from a human perspective. He knows, but it would not be beneficial to give such information to us.
     
  6. Sees

    Sees Dragonslayer

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Messages:
    4,730
    Ratings:
    +2,832
    Religion:
    Ásatrú - Path of Heroes™
    Is this a personal conversation? :confused:
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. anonymous9887

    anonymous9887 bible reader

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,648
    Ratings:
    +115
    Religion:
    unknown
    What does the words only the father mean?
     
  8. anonymous9887

    anonymous9887 bible reader

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,648
    Ratings:
    +115
    Religion:
    unknown
    This just means that they are separate persons. But they are all still fully god.
     
  9. anonymous9887

    anonymous9887 bible reader

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,648
    Ratings:
    +115
    Religion:
    unknown
    When he says only the father knows the day and the hour, is this statement true or false
     
  10. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    23,815
    Ratings:
    +7,817
    This is how I reconciled it.

    God is not an entity but a pronoun describing love, grace, passion in some faiths to object or person of devotion in multiple others. It's not a concecrete word for addressing one "Person" in Christianity. It's a way to describe these persons within the trinity.

    As such, the Father is the Creator in Christianity. Father being Father of the world and so forth. He has one nature (as said above), love, grace, and all that. So He is God.

    Jesus Christ is the Son, the Savior in Christianity. The son being the Word from His Father. The Son has one nature in His Father because He is the Word. Sharing that nature of His Father makes Him God as well.

    The Holy Spirit didn't "exist" until after Jesus was Baptized. It didn't take affect until Acts, I believe. Since the Spirit is what drives life, the only place that that spirit can come from is The Father. So when Jesus was baptized, the Father sent his spirit to decend upon his son. The apostles received the gift of the holy spirit in acts to preach the gospel. Since the Spirit comes from the Father and sent through Christ, the Holy Spirit, too is God.

    God meaning one word that describes a full collection of Who the Father, Son, and Spirit are.

    God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. anonymous9887

    anonymous9887 bible reader

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,648
    Ratings:
    +115
    Religion:
    unknown
    Actually no the holy spirit is mentioned throughout the Hebrew scriptures genesis 1:2
     
  12. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    23,815
    Ratings:
    +7,817
    Regardless, the Holy Spirit still have the same nature of the Father and Son, that makes all three God.
     
  13. anonymous9887

    anonymous9887 bible reader

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,648
    Ratings:
    +115
    Religion:
    unknown
    How if god knows all things, but in matthew 24:36 it says only the father knows. What about Jesus and the holy spirit, if they are fully god then they should know all things, since god knows all things
     
  14. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Pyrphóros ⚡ Lux Aeterna
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    26,547
    Ratings:
    +12,398
    Religion:
    Olympianism (Greco-Roman polytheism) / Left-Hand Path
    He was speaking from a human perspective, as I said.

    This message board post explains it very well:
    "Yes, I belive it was the opinion of the ECF that in His humanity, Jesus did not know. Not that he couldn't know mind you. Jesus' humanity and divinity were perfectly substantially united in one Person. However, since the Son took to Himself a human nature, that nature had to learn through experimentation like we do. He had to ask for the name of one of the Apostles when He met him for the first time for example. He could have chosen to know that Apostle's name but chose not to without inquiring. So, we know one thing from Scripture that cannot be ascertained is the date of the Day of Judgment. If Jesus' humanity didn't find the date we sure won't. But here we have a beautiful mystery. Jesus so humbled Himself by becoming man that He didn't even allow Himself information He had right to without the Father's permission. As the Holy Spirit, speaks only what He hears, so does the Son."

    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=818692
     
  15. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    23,815
    Ratings:
    +7,817
    Dont think you're getting the language/grammar boundry here.

    God is not an entity.

    There are three distinct people in Christianity: The Father. The Son. The Holy Spirit.

    Each Person of this trinity has One nature. That One nature is a collection of love, grace, and all that.

    In Christianity: Only the Father, the Son, and The Holy Spirit has these characteristics.

    These characteristics make them God.

    --This might help-- This is your quote. My marks in blue"

    "How if Jesus knows all things, but in matthew 24:36 it says only the Father knows. What about Jesus and the holy spirit, if they are fully One Person then they should know all things, since Creator knows all things"

    If Jesus knows all things, then He would knows what His Father does. In NT, that is not the case. Jesus and the Father do not know the same thing. (I do not know the time and hour; why go to me, go to my Father; and so forth). The Holy Spirit came from Jesus. The Spirit doesn't have flesh nor does the Father. Jesus is distinct in that he is flesh as well as spirit.

    They are fully one Person as in one nature not One entity. Key point there.

    One Nature not One Entity.

    Nature=God
    Entity=Father

    Edit: The Father and the word God is used interchangably. So, take the word God out and refer to each person directly. They still have the same nature..just you wont get mixed up with them being one person if you refer to them individually instead.
     
  16. anonymous9887

    anonymous9887 bible reader

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,648
    Ratings:
    +115
    Religion:
    unknown
    [QUO TE="Saint Frankenstein, post: 4.526511 , member: 36975 "]He was speaking from a human perspective, as I said.

    This message board post explains it very well:
    "Yes, I belive it was the opinion of the ECF that in His humanity, Jesus did not know. Not that he couldn't know mind you. Jesus' humanity and divinity were perfectly substantially united in one Person. However, since the Son took to Himself a human nature, that nature had to learn through experimentation like we do. He had to ask for the name of one of the Apostles when He met him for the first time for example. He could have chosen to know that Apostle's name but chose not to without inquiring. So, we know one thing from Scripture that cannot be ascertained is the date of the Day of Judgment. If Jesus' humanity didn't find the date we sure won't. But here we have a beautiful mystery. Jesus so humbled Himself by becoming man that He didn't even allow Himself information He had right to without the Father's permission. As the Holy Spirit, speaks only what He hears, so does the Son."

    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=818692[/QUOTE]
    That explains why jesus didn't know. what about the holy spirit?
     
  17. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    23,815
    Ratings:
    +7,817
    @Paul Chavez

    Everywhere you find the word god in scripture or even on RF, replace it with Creator, Son, or Spirit. If you can find what that word is refering to then you know it's (the word god) is an adjective to describe one nature of three distinct individuals/persons.
     
  18. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Pyrphóros ⚡ Lux Aeterna
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    26,547
    Ratings:
    +12,398
    Religion:
    Olympianism (Greco-Roman polytheism) / Left-Hand Path
    He didn't mention the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit hadn't been given unto the disciples yet.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    24,684
    Ratings:
    +9,202
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    Like the diagram, your remark here is seriously flawed. What does it mean to be "fully god"?
     
  20. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2014
    Messages:
    5,896
    Ratings:
    +2,675
    Religion:
    Theism+Jesus(pbuh) influenced by....... Taoism and Buddhism
    Atheists that support a belief in the Trinity, you never cease to amaze me RF posters!!
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...