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The trinity of three scriptures destroys the myth of the Trinity:

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by iris89, Dec 27, 2004.

  1. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    There can be no compromise with God’s truths. Hence, to worship God on his terms means to reject the Trinity doctrine. It contradicts what the prophets, Jesus, the apostles, and the early Christians believed and taught. It contradicts what God says about himself in his own inspired Word.













    God’s interests are not served by making him confusing and mysterious. Instead, the more that people become confused about God and his purposes, the better it suits God’s Adversary, Satan the Devil, the ‘god of this world.’ It is he who promotes such false doctrines to ‘blind the minds of unbelievers.’ (2 Corinthians 4:4) And the Trinity doctrine also serves the interests of clergymen who want to maintain their hold on people, for they make it appear as though only theologians can understand it.—See John 8:44.​

    Accurate knowledge of God brings great relief. It frees us from teachings that are in conflict with God’s Word and from organizations that have apostatized. As Jesus said: "You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."—John 8:32.​

    By honoring God as supreme and worshiping him on his terms, we can avoid the judgment that he will soon bring on apostate Christendom. Instead, we can look forward to God’s favor when this system ends: "The world is passing away and so is its desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever."—1 John 2:17.

    THROUGHOUT the ancient world, as far back as Babylonia, the worship of pagan gods grouped in threes, or triads, was common. That influence was also prevalent in Egypt, Greece, and Rome in the centuries before, during, and after Christ. And after the death of the apostles, such pagan beliefs began to invade Christianity.so people are misled by the trinity it is a manmade doctrine, not according to the bible, still the bible did foretell a great apostasy ,so it is only to be expected.and after all, did not jesus say that his true followers would be persecueted just like he was. and this persecution came from the main religious system of his day , its the same today, those who speak truth will be persecuted .Iris speaks truth inline with the scriptures that is what is important not manmade doctrines out of line with the bible

     
  2. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    I probably do Deut... I know only of the the ones mentioned in the NT.
     
  3. No*s

    No*s Captain Obvious

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    I'll have to get a list of references for you ND (I don't have them memorized...and libraries are few and far between). I think you'd like some of the accounts of the Pharisees and their predecessors. They were the everyman in the faith, the little guys, and there's some inspiring stories about them :).
     
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  4. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi May and Everyone

    I see you are starting to reason and realize the Trinity is NOT from God (YHWH) but comes from paganism and is a tool of the Devil to confuse the many so they do NOT find the narrow path of salvation.

    Now, In considering whether the mainstream groups of Christianity are correct in belief or in serious error, one needs to consider several scriptures in the new testament showing the Truth with respect what God (YHWH) has to say through inspired writers and then reflect back to how this would apply to mainstream Christianity to which most so called Christians belong. First let's consider both Luke 13:24 and Matthew 7:13-14, it is in both of these that the road followed by true believers would be narrow and cramped, Luke 13:24, "Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able." (Authorized King James Bible: AV); And Matthew 7:13-14, "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, abroad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." (AV); thereby, clearly showing few would be entering the narrow gate "which leadeth unto life." In reality, it will be difficult for even true Christians to enter as testified to at 1 Peter 4:18, "And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear." (AV). In order to enter, we must have the right sort of guide, Luke 1:79, "To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace." (AV). Now, if one picks the wrong group, just because it is popular or the so called 'one to belong to in a community' and not because of Bible Truths, there is an important warning given at Matthew 15:14, "Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." (AV). In fact, being with the wrong group can mean you are NOT having fellowship with the Son of God, Jesus (Yeshua) as testified to at 1 John 1:6, "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not [have] the truth." (AV). This danger is made abundantly clear at Luke 12:32 when Jesus (Yeshua) spoke of his true followers as a little flock and not a large one, "Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom." (AV). Simply stated, his true followers will be relatively few in number which should cause all sincere individuals to question whether mainstream religion with its vast membership is heading for the narrow gate!
    For more information, go to:

    Trinity, the Facts
    http://www.network54.com/Forum/388928

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  5. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    No*s,

    It is my limited understanding that the Pharisees at first were at the forefront of restoring Judaism to it's original form. Like many religious reformations, they had trouble keeping their focus of doctrinal purity and strayed to obtaining and retaining religious power.
     
  6. timeguest

    timeguest New Member

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    The Word that was God was made flesh. Spirit is greater than flesh. Jesus prayed to be glorified with the Glory he had with the Father before the world was. The Father Glorified him with that oneness Glory. The Holy Ghost is that Glorified truth by which we know the true and living God. These three are one expression of the Father. They are one.
     
  7. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Hi, timeguest.

    I'm wondering why you believe that spirit is greater than flesh?

    Kathryn
     
  8. timeguest

    timeguest New Member

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    Hello Kathryn, Jesus said the Father is greater than I. God is Spirit. The Spirit is not subject to the weakness of the flesh. The flesh is a conciousness by which we concieve. Those that are born of the Spirit concieve the world and the universe by a greater conciousness then they who see after the flesh. Those who are born of the Spirit are free from the teachings, vision, and conception of the flesh. The body I live in is not the flesh Iam talking about. I have been born of the Spirit. Iam no longer in the relm of the flesh. I set in hevenly places. I have been born of the spirit. Therefore I am spirit. I have a new vision.
     
  9. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi Everyone

    I can tell from the comments in the post that many do not comprehend that the Holy Spirit is God's (YHWH's) active force or power, but here is something short to assist all:

    A Commentary covering Acts 10:19-20; Acts 16:6; Acts 13:2-4; Acts 15:28; Romans 8:14; Romans 8:26; Ephesians 4:30; and 1 Corinthians 2:10-12 that will show that the Spirit or Holy Spirit is God's (YHWH's) active force or power and emanates from him and is a force completely controlled by him, and is capable of giving him feedback and gathering for him information.



    But first let's see why the Spirit is indeed God's (YHWH's) active force or power from an understanding of the ancient word 'pneu'ma' translated Spirit or Holy Spirit in English. The neuter Koine Greek word for spirit (pneu'ma) is used with the neuter pronoun "it" since it is lacks gender. This fact is conveniently over looked or hidden by most Trinitarian translators of the Bible as admitted in the "New American Bible Catholic Bible," regarding John 14:17: "The Greek word for 'Spirit' is neuter, and while we use personal pronouns in English ('he,' 'his,' 'him'), most Greek MSS [manuscripts] employ 'it.'" So when the Bible uses masculine personal pronouns in connection with pa·ra'kle·tos at John 16:7, 8, it is conforming to rules of grammar, not expressing a doctrine. And in Ancient Hebrew the word here rendered Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit, or Spirit which is translated from 'ru'ach' meaning "breath; wind; spirit." In Latin, it is spiritus, and in Sanskrit, 'prana' which means both "breath" and "spirit." And the pertinent definition in the Funk & Wagnalls Standard College Dictionary (ISBN 0-308-10309-2 and 0-308-10310-6) clearly states, (4) <Often Cap.> In the Bible, the creative, animating power or divine influence of God...[etymology-[<Old French, 'espirit' <Latin, 'spiritus' bredth, spirit <'spirare' to breathe]. So we can see it, the Holy Spirit or Spirit is truly God's (YHWH's) active force or power and not a spirit being as are Almighty God (YHWH) and his Son, Jesus (Yeshua). This point is very well made in the New International Version at Luke 1:35, "The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[1] the Son of God." (The New International Version; NIV). Sure shows that the Holy Spirit is nothing but God's (YHWH's) active force.



    Now from the study of science and technology we know that with respect a force there can be four possibilities or possibly five applicable questions, which are as follows:



    (1) Is it an uncontrolled force?



    (2) Is it a controlled force?



    (3) Is it controlled, but without feedback?



    (4) Is it controlled, but with feedback?



    Is it direct or indirect feedback?



    However 1 Corinthians 2:10-12 shows it to be a controlled force with feedback that appears to be direct feedback, "But unto us God revealed [them] through the Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of the man, which is in him? even so the things of God none knoweth, save the Spirit of God. 12 But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God; that we might know the things that were freely given to us of God." (American Standard Version; ASV), clearly showing that the "spirit which is from God," and God "revealed [them] through the Spirit," and uses it to search all things, thus showing it is a controlled spirit capable of feedback. God (YHWH) has complete control over his power or force and can choose its fields of operations as testified to at Romans 8:14, "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." (ASV) clearly showing he can use to lead individuals and that it belongs to him. And John 16:13 clearly shows it as a force, "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come." Since it is quite clear that it is a controlled force, "shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak,"



    Clearly it is a controlled force used by God (YHWH) to do many things as testified to at Acts 10:19-20, "While Peter was meditationg on the vision, the Spirit said to him, 'There are two men looking for you. 20 Get up and go down, and without hesitation go on with them, for I have sent them.'" (The New Testament by Charles B. Williams); And the fact that it is a closely controlled force is further affirmed at Acts 16:6, "And the Spirit bade me go with them, making no distinction. And these six brethren also accompanied me; and we entered into the man's house:" (ASV); And at Acts 13:2-4, "And as they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. 3 Then, when they had fasted and prayed and laid their hands on them, they sent them away. 4 So they, being sent forth by the Holy Spirit, went down to Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus." (ASV); And at Acts 15:28, "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things:" (ASV) clearly indicating direct feedback to and response by God (YHWH); which is further shown by Ephesians 4:30, "And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, in whom ye were sealed unto the day of redemption" (ASV) which once more indicates that is gives direct feedback and it reacts to the feelings of God (YHWH) from which it emanates thus a tightly controlled force or power.

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  10. reyjamiei

    reyjamiei Member

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    Most Christians define the Trinity as being one God in three personages or forms, (The Father, The Son & The Holy Ghost) Not three different Gods. None of the scriptures that you cite exclude the Trinity. John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (New English Translation; NEB) The Father, Son & Holy Ghost were all there at the beginning because they are all one God.
     
  11. greatcalgarian

    greatcalgarian Well-Known Member

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    Is this a good proof from NT on the Trinity?
     
  12. greatcalgarian

    greatcalgarian Well-Known Member

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    A second evidence from NT on Trinity.
     
  13. greatcalgarian

    greatcalgarian Well-Known Member

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    http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=180
    When I finished reading this article "The Biblical Doctrine of the Trinity" by W. Gary Crampton, I have to go and make myself a three in one (coffee, cream, and sugar), and finally came to the sane conclusion that figuratively, by analogy: God the father is the coffee, God the Son is the cream, God the Holy Ghost or Spirit is the sugar. When human interpretation, which is the hot water is added to the coffee, cream, and sugar, and stirred thoroughly, we then have one nice cup of coffee, which is the Trinity, there are no three Gods but One.​
     
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  14. SK2005

    SK2005 Saint in training

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    Yay another analogy person!!!! I like that one. I've always used my Snickers analogy but people think I'm crazy.:rolleyes: But in reality I'm just cool:cool: !


    :D
     
  15. greatcalgarian

    greatcalgarian Well-Known Member

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    1. There is only one God who is immutably and eternally indivisible and simple (Deuteronomy 6:4; John 17:3; 1 Corinthians 8:6).​
    2. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are each fully and co-equally God (John 20:17; John 1:1; Acts 5:3-5).​
    3. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are distinct and not one and the same (Mark 1:10-11; John 15:26; Hebrews 9:14).​
    The Intellectual Triunity of God​


    Joel Parkinson​

    I read the above, but is confused further. I think I better stop trying to figure out how to reach a mathematic solution of 3 = 1 = 3 = 1 = ..........:help: ​
     
  16. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi Reyjamiei and Everyone



    You stated,



    Clearly showing that you do not know the subject. You clearly like many who believe in the False Dogma of the Trinity and really have only a superficial knowledge of the Theology. So before I discuss this false doctrine using only the Bible I am going into what this false theology really is from an impeccable source.



    The Trinitarian dogma, The Cyclopoedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, New York 1871, by John M'Clintock and James Strong, Vol. II, page 560-561, states, "We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the

    persons, nor dividing the substance. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one: the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost.....The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Ghost eternal...So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Ghost almighty...So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet there are not three Gods, but one God...The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding...And in this Trinity none is afore or after other; none is greater or less than another. But the whole three persons are coeternal together, and coequal. So that in all things, as is afore said, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity." [this is the Athanasian Creed quoted in the above mentioned Cyclopoedia].



    Also, you distorted your quote of mine to make the New English bible (NEB) read different than it does, it reads: "The Word dwelt with God, and what God was, the word was."



    Also, you clearly know nothing with regard to translational constructs, now here is some information on that:



    Constructs of John 1:1, Read and Learn:

    Let's look at the 10 possible constructs of John 1:1 that do NOT violate any rule of Koine Greek grammar with the exception of the fact is that THEOS (=God) is a count noun, not a mass noun or an adjective. As a count noun it MUST BE countable, i.e. either definite or indefinite (i.e. either "a god" or "the God") for two of the constructs:

    <1> "and a god was the Logos." [example of Bible using, Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Jurgen Becker Harwood, 1979]

    <2> "the nature of the Word was the same as the nature of God" [example of Bible using, Schonfield, 1976]

    <3> "The Word dwelt with God, and what God was, the word was." [example of Bible using, The New English Bible, NEB, 1961-present standard Bible agreed to by most denominations in the United Kingdom]

    <4> "And the word was a god" [example of Bible using, The New Testament in An Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Achbishop Newcome's New Translation: With a Corrected Text.]

    <5> "and the Word was divine" [example of Bible using, The Bible: An American Translation, by J.M.P. Smith and E.J. Goodspeed. }

    <6> "and the Word was God" [example of Bible using, American Standard Version, ASV] [note, this construct violates the count noun rule of Koine Greek]

    <7> "He was the same as God" example of Bible using, Today's English Version.]

    <8> "the Logos was divine" [example of Bible using, The New Testament: A New Translation, by James Moffat]

    <9> "r war bei Gott und in allem Gott gleich"[He was with God and in all like God] [example of Bible using, Haenchen (tr. By R. Funk), 1982]

    <10> "Gott (von Art) war der Logos" [God (of Kind/kind) was the Logos/logos] [example of Bible using, Die Bibel in heutigem Deutsch, 198

    This is just a short quote from a long informative article you can go to for the complete text at:






    Constructs of John 1:1, Read and Learn:


    http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=388559&messageid=1118022699&lp=1118022699



    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  17. reyjamiei

    reyjamiei Member

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    I never said that I believe in the Trinity.
     
  18. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Iris, Namaste.


    It must be kind of useful, going from one forum to another, posting the same responses....:D
     
  19. reyjamiei

    reyjamiei Member

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    I quoted you from your first message on this thread and there you have that the (NEB) reads
    FIRST:

    John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (New English Translation; NEB)

    I didn't distort anything.
     
  20. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Ah, but who is the spoon?:biglaugh:
     
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