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The trinity of three scriptures destroys the myth of the Trinity:

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by iris89, Dec 27, 2004.

  1. anders

    anders Well-Known Member

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    Iris, you keep harping on "First, the Bible was written over a period exceeding a millennium and one/half by over 40 different divinely inspired writers." and such. Please provide references (I won't hope for proof) as to who wrote what and when. And your list of "fulfilled prophesies" on http://forum.bismikaallahuma.org/viewtopic.php?t=5076 is too crazy to waste time refuting. The few items that are not obvioulsy created after the events they are supposed to predict are so general that anybody could have said so anytime, and just waited for a suitable occasion to claim fulfillment, like the Greek Pythia's "Croesus will destroy a great empire." You know what happened--Croesus crossed the river, and his great empire was lost. I hereby predict that there will be a war. Count me among the prophets.
     
  2. lilithu

    lilithu The Devil's Advocate

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    I do not believe in the traditional Christian trinity myself, but have no interest in trying to prove to Christians that the doctrine is false. If their belief makes them better people for it, then there is truth in it that is more important than any "facts."

    But the "fact" remains that the question as posed is meaningless: Should Christians believe in false doctrines?

    Should anybody believe false doctrines? And who decides what's true or false anyway? Apparently, a lot of people are quite certain that they know what the truth is. How strange that they don't agree with each other.
     
  3. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi lilithu

    Your question,

    The Bible clearly shows what is true and what is false doctrine if one will but read it objectively, which most do not. If one reads it with preconceived beliefs in mind of course they can convince themselves that certain false beliefs are supported which are NOT. tHAT IS WHY I spend so much time exposing false beliefs and showing what the Bible says and why I use the Bible and the Bible alone to support what I say since the Bible is the Standard. Of course, some do not comprehend what the Bible is saying and that is to be expected in light of what is said at 2 Corinthians 4:4, "in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn [upon them]. " (American Standard Version; ASV). To learn more about the Bible as a Standard, go to:

    STANDARDS ARE PROMULGATED NOT PROVEN BUT USED:

    http://forum.bismikaallahuma.org:/viewtopic.php?t=5076

    and,


    Civilization and the Bible

    http://forum.bismikaallahuma.org:/viewtopic.php?t=5075

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  4. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member

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    As any "true Scottsman" knows. :rolleyes:
     
  5. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    It's amazing how Peter and Paul spent all their time exposing "false doctrine"... or did they?

    No, most of their writings are about growing into God's Grace. If you are BUSY doing that, then the false doctrines just don't show up as much or make near an impact.

    Matthew 12:43 "When an evil spirit comes out of a man, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44 Then it says, `I will return to the house I left.' When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. 45 Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that man is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked generation."

    If you fill up your heart with goodness, then there is no room for the evil spirits.
     
  6. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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  7. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Again,

    the FOCUS of John's ministry was NOT being part of the "Doctrine Police". You can focus on that all you want, but I will continue to be a part of God's "Love Militia" instead. You can continue to browbeat people into submission, while I am intent on loving them into the Kingdom.

    People who focus on "Doctrine" for salvation have exchanged the freedom and truth of God for a "works salvation", which is no salvation at all. Like the Pharisees, they want to bind all sorts of rules and regulations on the believers in the name of "sound doctrine". On close scrutiny we see they are intent on simply imposing their will and not God's. Have they fooled themselves? Oh yes... that is assured! But God is not fooled, and the Spirit has allowed me to see the deception as well.
     
  8. lilithu

    lilithu The Devil's Advocate

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    The only objective way to read the Bible is to read it entirely literally. Given distortions in even the best translations from one language to another, and given the loss of cultural context... No thanks.

    Objective truths do exist in this world, and they will be recognized as true by most people without need of coersion (either physical or verbal). As for the objective truths that need to be foisted on other people, perhaps they aren't so objective afterall.
     
  9. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi NetDoc




    You are mixing two or three things together, I shall reply to each one at a time so as to unjamble them.




    FIRST, You can not be believing false God (YHWH) dishonoring doctrine and be winning his approval. That is why it is written at 2 Timothy 3:13-17 the following, " But evil men and impostors shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But abide thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them. 15 And that from a babe thou hast known the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 Every scripture inspired of God [is] also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness. 17 That the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work." (American Standard Version; ASV); and at Titus 2:1, "But speak thou the things which befit the sound doctrine:" (ASV).



    SECOND, With respect love, the Bible says 1 John 4:16, "And we know and have believed the love which God hath in us. God is love; and he that abideth in love abideth in God, and God abideth in him." (ASV); and 1 John 4:10, " Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins." (ASV); and 1 John 5:3, "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." (ASV). Now this last scripture clearly shows we must keep his commandments.

    For more information on the subject of love, go to my article:



    TRUE cHRISTIANITY IS ALL ABOUT LOVE:

    http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6968



    THIRD, With respect salvation, Salvation is an important subject that all genuine Christians need to learn a lot more about. It is imperative that we all have a correct understanding on what is meant by Salvation in the Bible. Unfortunately, many have the wrong understanding and outlook on this Biblical subject.



    Go to the following to get a better understanding of this subject,



    Discourse on Salvation

    http://examining-doctrines.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=70



    Your Friend in Christ Iris89



     
  10. LittleNipper

    LittleNipper Well-Known Member

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    God emptied himself into the form of Jesus. God took on human form. GOD is one essence made up of 3 persons or manifestations that have coexisted as GOD forever. They are one and they act as one. The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are dependent on each other to the fufillment of their goals. They receive Glory from what they do. They are GOD, the great "I AM".
     
  11. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi LittleNipper

    You have made a statement of your opinion which is NOT backed on fact. To learn the facts, go to the following:

    Documentary on the Book of John Being Anti-Trinitarian-In Multiple Parts:

    http://examining-doctrines.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=97



    and;



    Mainstream Religion Sold Out To Paganism, Details Sellout to Pagan Politicians

    http://examining-doctrines.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=209



    and;



    Trinity = Absurd to the Extreme:

    http://examining-doctrines.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=61



    and;



    Colossians 2:8-12 & John 1:1 - Learn The Facts

    http://examining-doctrines.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=93



    and;



    Scourge of Christendom, The Pagan Trinity:

    http://examining-doctrines.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=58



    and;



    Trinity = Absurd God (YHWH) Dishonoring Doctrine:

    http://p078.ezboard.com/fyahwehstruthinchristfrm2.showMessage?topicID=58.topic



    and;



    Discourse on John 8:58:

    http://p078.ezboard.com/fyahwehstruthinchristfrm2.showMessage?topicID=83.topic



    and;



    Learn - Documentary on Our Savior Jesus (Yeshua):

    http://p078.ezboard.com/fyahwehstruthinchristfrm2.showMessage?topicID=74.topic



    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  12. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Hi Littlenipper,

    Don't bother... you can learn everything you need to know about this right here! :D
     
  13. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi NetDoc

    That is not so. I have done very extensive none biased research on the subject and with out question am a leading expert on the subject.


    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  14. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Uh, I have some questions about that.

    Who sees YOU as an expert?

    Why can't you share your info here?
     
  15. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi NetDoc

    FIRST, My articles on the subject speak for themselves, go read them at:

    Documentary on the Book of John Being Anti-Trinitarian-In Multiple Parts:

    http://examining-doctrines.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=97



    and;



    Mainstream Religion Sold Out To Paganism, Details Sellout to Pagan Politicians

    http://examining-doctrines.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=209



    and;



    Trinity = Absurd to the Extreme:

    http://examining-doctrines.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=61



    and;



    Colossians 2:8-12 & John 1:1 - Learn The Facts

    http://examining-doctrines.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=93



    and;



    Scourge of Christendom, The Pagan Trinity:

    http://examining-doctrines.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=58



    and;



    Trinity = Absurd God (YHWH) Dishonoring Doctrine:

    http://p078.ezboard.com/fyahwehstruthinchristfrm2.showMessage?topicID=58.topic



    and;



    Discourse on John 8:58:

    http://p078.ezboard.com/fyahwehstruthinchristfrm2.showMessage?topicID=83.topic



    and;



    Learn - Documentary on Our Savior Jesus (Yeshua):

    http://p078.ezboard.com/fyahwehstruthinchristfrm2.showMessage?topicID=74.topic



    and;



    When God's (YHWH's) Kingdom Starts Rulling:

    http://examining-doctrines.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=204



    and,



    Discourse on the Bible:

    http://forum.bismikaallahuma.org:/viewtopic.php?p=46520#46520



    and,



    Muslims Do Not Comprehend The Bible:

    http://forum.bismikaallahuma.org:/viewtopic.php?t=5096



    and,



    Let's Have Reality in Translation:

    http://examining-doctrines.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=207



    and,



    Discourse on the Whether Christ is Divine:

    http://examining-doctrines.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=190



    and,



    DISCOURSE ON THE MISCONCEPTION WITH RESPECT 'I AM'
    http://examining-doctrines.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=185



    And,

    Discourse On The Holy Spirit:

    http://examining-doctrines.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=184



    and,



    Discourse on Trinitarians Being Blinded to The Truth:

    http://examining-doctrines.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=178



    and,



    Rebuke To A Trinitarian, Trinity is God Dishonoring False Doctrine

    http://examining-doctrines.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=176



    SECOND, Other Bible scholars such as Heinz Schmidt, Dr. Jason Beduhn, Nat Price, Paul Jones, other posters who have sent me private messages, etc.

    THIRD, I am sharing my information here and when it is too extensive for posting on this forum, I provide links as above to it.

    FOURTH, Why are you so negative?

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  16. LittleNipper

    LittleNipper Well-Known Member

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    In Revelations, Christ is revealed.

    Christ says "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord GOD, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the ALMIGHTY."

    This entire book is about Christ speaking to the seven churches and coming prophetic realizations.

    See John 5:14-18 Only GOD can forgive sin. Jesus was constantly demonstrating that HE was equal with GOD.
     
  17. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    If I want to go elsewhere I will. I find it a bit disturbing that you are not willing to write of the subject here. But then there are lots of things about you that disturb me.

    And Please... don't spam me again with more cut and paste redirects. It's just not nice to ask someone to go to another web site for enlightenment when that was what I came here for.
     
  18. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    iris89,
    Just wanted to chime in that I don't read your posts either...... if I can't read them here, I'm not going to.

    Scott
     
  19. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi Everyone

    I provide links to my more in-depth articles for those truly interested in learning the facts. If one does not care to learn the facts, that is his/her priviladge. I have done my part in providing assistance to those desirous of taking advantage of the learning opportunity.

    For those who wish to make uninformed statements without knowing the facts, such as,
    They, not I, will eventually have to suffer the consequences for not knowing the facts.

    Here is a short bit of information on Alpha and the Omega and Revelations to start sincere individuals a thinking:

    Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. [Authorized King James Bible: AV]



    Clearly this verse does NOT apply to Jesus (Yeshua) as nowhere does the Bible use the term Almighty to apply to Jesus (Yeshua), but only to his Father, Almighty God (YHWH). This is made clear at Genesus 17:1, "And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect, 2... 3 and Abram fell on his face; and God talked with him..." (AV); and at Genesis 35:11, "And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;" (AV). This is also reaffirmed at Revelation 4:8, "And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come." (AV), which also shows the Lord here referred to is Almighty God (YHWH), and not his only begotten Son, Jesus (Yeshua) to whom this title "Lord" is often also applied.



    This fact, is also shown at Revelation 11:17, "Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.",(AV), yet there are those who attempt to twist the scriptures to serve the god of this system or world, and use scriptures such as Revelation 1:11, "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea." (AV), but fail to notice the critical difference "the first and the last" which rather than implying that Jesus (Yeshua) is Almighty God (YHWH) clearly show his as the first of Creation as does Revelation 3:14, "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans F1 write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;" (AV); Clearly they do not recognize the difference between "beginning and the ending" and "the first and the last."



    Actually a lot of this confusion results from poor translation as clearly shown by the rendering of Revelation 1:11 in the New American Standard Bible-reference Edition by Moody Press, Chicago, a div. Of Moody Bible Institute; NASB-MP, "Saying, 'Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches; To Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyater and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodices." (NASB-MP); similar renderings are found in the American Standard Bible (ASB); the New World Translation (NWT); The Emphatic Dialogue; New Revised Standard Version (NRSV); the Westcott-Hort (1948 Reprint), and many more. Of particular interest is the rendering in the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, the following, "Saying: What thou seest, write in a book and send to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamus and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.".



    However, be not mislead by the trickery of men, but know this Psalms 83:18 says, "That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth." (AV). Here it uses the name, Jehovah, as the English form of God's (YHWH's) name, but since his name in Hebrew is all constants this is only one of several possible transliterations in English.



    And the difference is drawn out at Acts 5:24-26, "Now when the high priest and the captain of the temple and the chief priests heard these things, they doubted of them whereunto this would grow. 25 Then came one and told them, saying, Behold, the men whom ye put in prison are standing in the temple, and teaching the people. 26 Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them without violence: for they feared the people, lest they should have been stoned." (AV), where it clearly says, Acts 4:26, "The kings of the earth took their stand, And the rulers were gathered together Against the Lord, and against His Christ." (NASB-MP). Clearly showing here "Lord" applied to Almighty God (YHWH) and distinguishing him from his son the Christ, Jesus (Yeshua) as it showed them against both as distinct beings and not as one and the same.



    So we can clearly see those entrenched in false doctrine try to use a poor translation (of Revelation 1:11) to support their God (YHWH) dishonoring false doctrine and a title "Lord" that has been at various times applied to both the Father (YHWH) and to the Son, Jesus (Yeshua) to mislead. How Deceitful!



    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
  20. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

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    Hi Everyone

    A question, why do so many have a great adversion with respect learning and hold onto cherished opinions/beliefs without regard to whether they are right or wrong? I my self strive to learn something new each day, why is this a rarity?

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
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