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Featured The Trinity in the OT (my belief)

Discussion in 'Theological Concepts' started by Teritos, Feb 27, 2021.

  1. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    Romans 8:16 says "THE spirit bears witness". THE spirit means ONE spirit. the one spirit of God. I see nothing that says the Father has a spirit and the Son has a spirit and the Spirit has a spirit. God is one spirit.
     
  2. Norman Beall

    Norman Beall Member

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    The act of mother nature that animates matter is called the holy spirit. It is what God calls his glory.

    The reason it is written that none fulfill the glory of God, is due to the fact that without the act of mother nature that animates matter, without the holy spirit, neither you nor i nor God would be alive.
     
  3. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Well-Known Member

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    May I suggest you allow yourself to be informed by the Scripture rather than starting from a premise.
     
  4. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Nope. That's Christian theology. The God of Israel is not a Trinitarian god ─ indeed the Christian god didn't become Trinitarian till the 4th century CE, as a result of political pressure that demanded Jesus be elevated to God status while pretending to maintain monotheism. Trinitarianism as a monotheistic claim is incoherent ─ the churches themselves say so ─ and actually results in three gods. (Many onlookers think Satan and certain versions of Mary are treated as having god status as well.)
    As your second quote shows, the Jesus of John is not God . Instead he's an associate of God who pre-existed in heaven with God and who in his role as demiurge ('craftsman') made the material universe. Those are gnostic teachings with which Paul agrees, and the authors of Mark, Matthew and Luke don't.

    (The Jesuses of Paul, Mark, Matthew, Luke and John each say they're not God and never claim to be God. The Jesus of John denies he's God on more occasions than the other four.)
     
    #24 blü 2, Feb 27, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
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  5. Teritos

    Teritos Active Member

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    The Word of God became the Son of God when it became man.
    John 1:14
    And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld his glory, a glory as of an only from the Father full of grace and truth.
     
  6. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    But see, the son does not become a "word' until the 2nd century AD.

    Thus when God created the universe so many years ago (6000 is it?) he didnt fare to mention the son was his word and that when ever he spoke it was his son coming out of his mouth, and it stayed a secret until some anonymous author comes in the 2nd century CE and says something that alludes to it?

    Amazing theology.
     
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  7. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    The Old testimonials, were the word.

    Meaning it was not written it was vocalised as a story passed down through the ages about how a satanist brother meaning human destroyed all life on Earth a long time ago.

    The thesis God.

    The new testimonials written as the old sciences had been re established. The temple science buildings re built as was the destroyed pyramids used in the sciences.

    To apply the method science, old science had been perused and re established and practiced.

    The new Testimonials written after the fact of new life attack. Genesis Exodus, did not need to re write what had gone before, cell health and human DNA removed. For it had only just returned to living as newly born DNA baby life, re sacrificed as consciousness of the scientist self destructive human Father had returned also.

    Just as it said.

    So the theory was re written correlating with a new testimony that proved that did it before and they had done it again sacrificed the new born healed baby returned life. Just as after the ice age the first man science baby self Father had applied the wisdom he re sought about science before the dinosaur giant life ruled the Earth.

    Fact man human invented all references terms thought as a bio consciousness as science.

    Science and human self never owned the Universe or the planet formation....the only lie and coercion that they still lie and coerce about today.
     
  8. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    No it is not. The Logos is a Greek concept first connect to Jewish Scriptures by the Hellenized Jew Philo a few years before the NT was written. The word dabar means "thing/word" and nothing more.
    That's why the verse in Psalm 33 doesn't come with a definite article. It doesn't say "the word of G-d" - it's not referring to some specific entity, it's simply talking about the things G-d speaks.
     
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  9. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
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    I don't think it is biased in as much as it was a Jewish person who wrote the book o John. It actually is a being because "The Word was made flesh"--a being.
     
  10. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    There is nothing in Isa. 55:11 that forces the conclusion that G-d's words manifest as a person.

    Perhaps G-d's words manifest as angels who do G-d's bidding?
     
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  11. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    That's a ridiculous argument. Being Jewish does not preclude someone from non-Scriptural biases.
    We know that the first person who came up with the idea of the Logos being connected to G-d's Word was a Hellenized Jew named Philo. A Jew with Greek biases, exactly as @Rival is describing.
     
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  12. Rival

    Rival Ankh, Wedja, Seneb
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    A Jewish person also wrote The Communist Manifesto. Who cares.
     
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  13. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    I think this is from the older NIV. I am not 100% sure.

    My translation says "By the words of the LORD were the heavens made; And all the host of them by the breath of His mouth". - THE JEWISH PUBLICATION SOCIETY OF AMERICA

    I think it uses Dabar and Ruah. Of course I have no expertise in the language but doesnt it seem to be the correct rendition?
     
  14. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    No one knows who wrote it. Especially the Prologue which especially cloven even from the rest of the book.
     
  15. Rival

    Rival Ankh, Wedja, Seneb
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    I am really starting to hate any and all translations. I'd rather read Hebrew words I can pronounce but don't understand and I'm almost sure I'd learn more at this rate. I really hate this debate. I really hate it.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    You are quoting verse 6 and she is quoting verse 9.
     
  17. Teritos

    Teritos Active Member

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    Logos means also "word". It's the greek translation of Dabar.
    Logos just means "what someone says", the same as Dabar. There is no difference between both.
     
  18. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Sure. I was not comparing Tumah. I was just clarifying because she is Jewish and may know the language far better than me.
     
  19. Teritos

    Teritos Active Member

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    The ANGEL OF THE LORD in the OT is sometimes God himself. When he visited Abraham with two angels, when he fought against Jacob and when he said to Moses "I AM", this ANGEL was God himself. The Word of God isn't a created angel, the Word of God is the spoken Word of God.
     
  20. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    Logos does mean word, but that's not what you mean when you speak about the Greek/Christian concept of the Logos.
     
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