But those who are dead "know nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5)"; their "thoughts perish (Psalms 146:3)" at death. The same with Jesus... His condition at death was as He said about Lazarus @ John 11:11-14...they both had "fallen asleep".
This is a great example of what happens when you pick one or two verses of scripture and draw a conclusions from them that forces you to have to tweak other verses to get them to fit into what you believe. If the dead truly know nothing, if their thoughts truly perish at death, then what on earth was Jesus doing preaching to them? If they could not hear Him, what point was there to His visit?
If people are 'alive' in some realm after their death, then the future Resurrection really is nothing....how can the dead "stand back to life", if they're already living somewhere?
As I already said in another post, life exists when a spirit enters a body; death occurs when a spirit leaves a body. The physical body is brought back to life when the spirit (which remains cognizant) re-enters it and gives it renewed life -- eternal life, because it will never again leave.
Jehovah told Adam, "(if you eat from that tree,) you will die". Adam knew what that meant, because he saw the animals die. (Otherwise, that statement would mean nothing to him.)
But if death really meant consciousness in another realm, then God was lying by omission; God told Adam, "You will return to the ground. For dust you are...." God didn't tell Adam, "your body"; He told him, "You." (Genesis 3:19)
How do you know that Adam saw the animals die? Seriously? That is pure conjecture on your part. Many people believe that nothing died prior to Adam being cast out of the Garden. The fact of the matter is that the Bible quite simply doesn't say one way or the other. No, God didn't tell Adam, "You body will die." He said, "You will die." By "you," He was referring to Adam as a living soul. When Adam's spirit left His body, He was no longer a "living soul." He was a dead body. And if you believe that a spirit is comprised of dust, I don't really know what to say. I realize that you believe that the spirit also "dies" at death, but most Christians don't. And none of them say, "My mother's body died last week," even though that is what they believe. They believe that the body is lifeless because the spirit is no longer residing in it. It is no longer a living soul (a soul being the entity comprised of both a body and a spirit).
This reminds me....In Daniel 12, we are told that in future times,"those in the ground of dust will wake up."
Yup. The body, which has turned to dust, will wake up. It will once again be a living soul, given new life by the spirit (which is certainly not dust!). In Ecclesiastes 12:7, we read, "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." The body, therefore, turns to dust, but the spirit doesn't!
They are "dust", their future prospects of life only coming through the Resurrection. -- John 5:28-29.
Why does the Psalmist say @ Psalms 115:17, "The dead do not praise God"? Because they "go down into silence." (And the Scripture doesn't differentiate between those who died good or bad.)
Similar to Isaiah 38:18.
You see, it all gets back to what we mean when we say that someone "died." That's why you say, "How can the dead stand back to life if they're already living somewhere?" It's why I believe that Jesus (while still in spirit form) preached to the spirits in prison and taught them His gospel.
But those who are dead "know nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5)"; their "thoughts perish (Psalms 146:3)" at death. The same with Jesus... His condition at death was as He said about Lazarus @ John 11:11-14...they both had "fallen asleep".
If people are 'alive' in some realm after their death, then the future Resurrection really is nothing....how can the dead "stand back to life", if they're already living somewhere?
Jehovah told Adam, "(if you eat from that tree,) you will die". Adam knew what that meant, because he saw the animals die. (Otherwise, that statement would mean nothing to him.)
But if death really meant consciousness in another realm, then God was lying by omission; God told Adam, "You will return to the ground. For dust you are...." God didn't tell Adam, "your body"; He told him, "You." (Genesis 3:19)
This reminds me....In Daniel 12, we are told that in future times,"those in the ground of dust will wake up."
They are "dust", their future prospects of life only coming through the Resurrection. -- John 5:28-29.
Why does the Psalmist say @ Psalms 115:17, "The dead do not praise God"? Because they "go down into silence." (And the Scripture doesn't differentiate between those who died good or bad.)
Similar to Isaiah 38:18.
And this is why we are at an impasse. We each believe that something different happens at death. And both of our beliefs are based on scripture. We simply interpret certain passages differently.