The Torah and Capital Punishment

[David Davidovich]

I would like to know from Torath Mosheh Jews: Since Torath Mosheh Jews are so adherent to the Torah, do you still follow the edicts of capital punishment found in the Torah such as stoning, etc.?

click here: Capital punishment in the Bible - Wikipedia

 

[rosends]

No. In our current situation, with a destroyed temple and no proper court, we are not allowed to apply the laws of capital punishment.

 

[Heyo]

No. In our current situation, with a destroyed temple and no proper court, we are not allowed to apply the laws of capital punishment.

Honest answer, but not very reassuring. It somehow makes us morally obligated to prevent you from ever having a temple again.

 

[Sedim Haba]

Honest answer, but not very reassuring. It somehow makes us morally obligated to prevent you from ever having a temple again.

Such only applied within the Land of Israel, and only under extreme conditions.
The Mishnah states that a Sanhedrin that executes one person in seven years is considered bloodthirsty.
(I always assumed for non-capital crimes, not murder for example, those are different)

Also, the presence of a Temple reduces such crimes in the first place.

 

[David Davidovich]

No. In our current situation, with a destroyed temple and no proper court, we are not allowed to apply the laws of capital punishment.

I see. Well, my next question may be a bit too speculative: So, if you did currently have a temple and a proper court, would Jews practice Torah-based capital punishment?

 

[David Davidovich]

Honest answer, but not very reassuring. It somehow makes us morally obligated to prevent you from ever having a temple again.

Wow!

 

[David Davidovich]

Such only applied within the Land of Israel, and only under extreme conditions.
The Mishnah states that a Sanhedrin that executes one person in seven years is considered bloodthirsty.
(I always assumed for non-capital crimes, not murder for example, those are different)

Also, the presence of a Temple reduces such crimes in the first place.

Well, I'm glad that there are those additional writings to the Torah because to the outside world who are only reading what's in the Torah, it makes it appear that some of its edicts and the punishments are very questionable or even archaic and outdated.

 

[metis]

In Catholicism, capital punishment is no longer allowed as there are less lethal alternatives such as prisons and jails, which all societies today have available. If one is for capital punishment, then they are certainly not pro-life.

 

[rosends]

I see. Well, my next question may be a bit too speculative: So, if you did currently have a temple and a proper court, would Jews practice Torah-based capital punishment?

Yes, and that would reduce the overall number of people put to death because the Jewish system of the legal process makes it very difficult to carry out a death penalty. Also, the reestablishment of the temple and court system would indicate the messianic era when there would certainly be fewer sins of a capital nature because the nature of humanity will change.

 

[David Davidovich]

Yes, and that would reduce the overall number of people put to death because the Jewish system of the legal process makes it very difficult to carry out a death penalty. Also, the reestablishment of the temple and court system would indicate the messianic era when there would certainly be fewer sins of a capital nature because the nature of humanity will change.

Okay, thanks. And while we're on the subject, are there anymore Torah edicts that the Jews don't currently practice?

 

[rosends]

Okay, thanks. And while we're on the subject, are there anymore Torah edicts that the Jews don't currently practice?

Sacrifices require spiritual purity (a state we can't fully achieve now) and an extant temple. Additionally, many agricultural laws are suspended now. There are other subtleties of law which have required a change or pause in practice) because we don't have (among other things) the religious courts required.

 

[David Davidovich]

Sacrifices require spiritual purity (a state we can't fully achieve now) and an extant temple.

So, how are you able to achieve spiritual purity now compared to having to make animal sacrifices during ancient times?

Additionally, many agricultural laws are suspended now. There are other subtleties of law which have required a change or pause in practice) because we don't have (among other things) the religious courts required.

Okay, thanks.

 

[rosends]

So, how are you able to achieve spiritual purity now compared to having to make animal sacrifices during ancient times?

There are different types of impurity and some are dealt with through immersion in a ritual bath. Certain require other means which we do not currently have.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I would like to know from Torath Mosheh Jews: Since Torath Mosheh Jews are so adherent to the Torah, do you still follow the edicts of capital punishment found in the Torah such as stoning, etc.?

According to Torath Mosheh, capital punishment is only something that is carried out when there is a Torah based nation in the land of Israel. Of course there has been no such situation for ~2,200 to 2,300 years.

It is something that only can only be done at the judgement of the Torah based Supreme Court called the Beith Din HaGadol or Sanhedrin. Further, the laws set in place by both the written Torah (in Hebrew) and the oral Torah are so stringent on the burdon of proof for performing such an act that it would take a LOT for a Jew/Israel to be executed.

Literally, the person would have to stand up in front of the Torah based Supreme Court and make an Emperor Palpatine like speach about how they did, they understand what they were doing when they did it, they have their own witnesses that said they did it, the witnesses warned them about what they were doing and the consquences, and that they are doing so publically in order to lead the Israeli nation astray. That is the level it would take.

Further, if you look back in Jewish history very few executions ever took place - except for in some very extreme situations similar to what was mentioned above.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

In Catholicism, capital punishment is no longer allowed as there are less lethal alternatives such as prisons and jails, which all societies today have available. If one is for capital punishment, then they are certainly not pro-life.

According to the OP the question is not asking about Catholicism. The OP states:

I would like to know from Torath Mosheh Jews: Since Torath Mosheh Jews are so adherent to the Torah, do you still follow the edicts of capital punishment found in the Torah such as stoning, etc.?​

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Honest answer, but not very reassuring. It somehow makes us morally obligated to prevent you from ever having a temple again.

You can try, but given that the conditions for ever having a Temple depend on something completely out of anyone's control I don't see how you personally have any say on what happens here in the Middle East.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Okay, thanks. And while we're on the subject, are there anymore Torah edicts that the Jews don't currently practice?

Yes, the following:

1. Anything that is of a national Israel Torah based governmental nature.
2. Anything dealing with the division of land based on tribel heritage.
3. Anything dealing with institution of the Temple.
4. Anything dealing with a national Israel Torah based military.

Essentially, this is the reason why even though Jews can live in the land of Israel and even though there is a state that calls itself a "Jewish state" BUT because of the fact the entire situaiton is not Torah based it is considered, by Torath Mosheh, that Jews are still in exile.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

So, how are you able to achieve spiritual purity now compared to having to make animal sacrifices during ancient times?

Jew a few linquistic nit picks that may help a bit in the long run.

1. The term "spiritual purity" is really not an adequote word, based on what the Hebrew really means, a better term, at least in English would be "fit" or even at the semi-extreme "ritually fit."
   • Currently, Jews are fit to perform certain mitzvoth from the Torah that are personal, familiar, and socially based but we are currently not fit to perform the ones that are Torah nationally based.
   • The reason for the nitpick is a Jew can 100% spirually pure but not fit to enter into the Temple, for example.
2. The term "animal sacrifices" is also not correct, linqustically with the Hebrew. The word (קורבן) Qorban means to "draw near" and not "sacrifice." A sacrifice is where you are giving up something, and there is only one type that is similar to that and it is called an (עולה) Olah or as some say in English "burnt offering."
   1. In fact, a number of Qorban's were not of animals but things like bread, flour, etc.
   • Also, a larger percent of the Qorbans were actually eaten in some way by either a) just the member of the Kohen family who served in the Temple or b) the Kohen families and the person bring the Qorban.

Lastly, the only thing that is stopping us Israelis from going back to the way things were at the height of our culture is essentially, us. I live here in Israel and I can tell you that literally the entire destiny of the Israeli/Jewish people could change dramatically based on how good or bad our leadership and societal choices are here in Israel.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

The Mishnah states that a Sanhedrin that executes one person in seven years is considered bloodthirsty.

Right, and if you look at some countries today the execution rates for one year is enough for them to be considered bloodthirsty by the standard given in the Mishnah. Here are a few examples.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I see. Well, my next question may be a bit too speculative: So, if you did currently have a temple and a proper court, would Jews practice Torah-based capital punishment?

Given that capital punishment is not a goal, the goal would be for there to be no executions at all. Again, as was mentioned before you would have to have, here in the land of Israel, a Torah based government structure, from the top to the bottom, that all Israelis want, accept, and work towards. That is the first step in even having such a government.

Next, the criteria is so high that essentially, using modern terms, a person would have to be actively seeking to do treason against the nation. They would have to have been publically making it clear that they seek the utter destruction of the Israeli/Jewish people. Further, they would have to be at a level that they stand up in the court and state, "Yes, I did it and I am totally sane and rational. I understand what Hashem commanded and I understand what I did. I want to see all of my fellow Israelis destroyed, in this world or the next. I hate you all with all of my heart and soul. Take that fellow Israelis. ha ha ha ha."

I am being a bit dramatic but that is about what it would take to be executed based on the written Hebrew Torah and Israeli/Jewish Halakha.