The top wrong assumptions i've came across when debating theist about evolution

[Tony L Smith]

Human curiosity and the thirst for understanding is an evolutionary trait which has helped us to survive as a species.

Maybe your God, you have to admit "You are god of your experience"

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

is there something without a cause?

You believe there is, so why ask?

 

[Tony L Smith]

God is inside the box "as you", yet he is still veiled to most of us.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

God is inside the box "as you", yet he is still veiled to most of us.

Can you say what that actually means? And when you say "veiled to must of us," apparently you imply "but not to some of us." Can you tell us who those are? And how you know?

 

[Tony L Smith]

Can you say what that actually means? And when you say "veiled to must of us," apparently you imply "but not to some of us." Can you tell us who those are? And how you know?

Kinda like a seed buried in the ground, it yearns to come forth but can be dug up or squashed.
You might can say that a woman can come to full term of childbearing, yet still abort.
In all these examples the natural or what already appears has to yield to the life from within. Corruption has to give way to the incorruptible. Time and space have to give way to eternity "oneness"
I can't tell whom they all are but I can tell you that you have this same cry within you. Scripture calls it the cry of sonship

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

In that light all arguments are conjecture. I have no problem with a Flying Spaghetti Monster image other than its just an image. I can't prove the unformed from the realm of the formed anyway. Undefined and formless don't scare me either. Knowing doesn't come from my intellect, it comes from the same place yours does. I might can try to argue to prove my point but I don't have the answers in my intelligence. But "I am", the same as you are. I may have decided to lay down what I thought I knew to experience something I didn't know in my emotional understanding yet. You can't reach different levels without letting go of (or at least be willing to) the old levels.

ummmm..... WHAT? If you had a message in there, I think it was lost in the New Age Speak.

I am happy to be shown to be wrong about something--but I won't accept "I just feel it in my gut/heart/glands/whatever"

Feeling is never a valid method for discovering new information. It may be used for a hint-- that can indeed, lead to new information.

But the discovery always involves much objective work, never "grit your teeth and wish real hard". That way only leads to madness.

... or religion. (same thing, really.... )

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Can you say what that actually means? And when you say "veiled to must of us," apparently you imply "but not to some of us." Can you tell us who those are? And how you know?

For some strange reason, I keep hearing a kitchy TV tune whenever I read his posts.....

Kinda like, "dee-do; dee-do; dee-do;" ... you know.... the one from that old Twilight Zone show...

 

[Thief]

I Debate a lot.


Unfortunately, many times, when i debate theists, they have many arguments against evolution, yet all of them (without an exception) are due to misconception of what the evolution theory is.

The top ones are those:

1. Evolution fails to explain the ORIGIN of life.

This is wrong. not because evolution can explain the origin of life, because evolution doesn't deal with the question of the origin of life.
Evolution deals with the process of explaining how all species on earth, evolved from a single first life form.
It doesn't try to answer the question of how this life form created.

Evolution is a biological theory. The origin of life are physical and chemical ones.
(although many physical and chemical fact support the evolution process)

2. Species evolved from literally one living cell.

This is wrong. When a first living cell is mentioned, the meaning here is for the first cells that had the ability to replicate. There could be billions, there could be only thousands, we don't have an answer yet.

It is also possible life didn't origin on earth, rather on some far planets and where spread to earth on meteors and asteroids.

3. I Can accept micro evolution, but there is no proof for macro evolution

This is wrong. There are thousands of proofs. Evolution does not happen as follows:

A => A => A => A => A => A => A=>H

rather:

A => B => C => D => E => F => G => H

The changes are small, they are indeed "micro" evolution, but after many many many many many many micro evolution to the same group of animals, they become so different, that they can no longer procreate with other kind of species they evolved from and thus a new specie is generated.

So: If we have a specie A, that is spread for example on land that is divided into warm environment, and cold environment.
Slowly over millions of years, Specie A will now be divided to two groups:

A that is more adjusted to warm (Aw), and A that is more adjusted to cold (Ac ).

As long as Aw can procreate with Ac, it is still specie A (this will be less common though, as the Aw would survive better in the warm environment, and avoid living among Ac and vise versa. (although some occasions will probably occur create an Awc )

Now after some more millions of years, the changes between Aw and Ac are so big, that those same occasions that Aw tried to procreate with Ac, the offspring died very quickly

After some more millions of years, the changes are now so big, that when Aw and Ac try to procreate that is is rarely possible as the procreation (internal) mechanism changed so much, it can barely "merge".

After some more years, the changes are so big, that Aw now can never procreate with Ac, to the point they biologically unable.

In the time, A now have evolved into B and C.

or in short:

[GALLERY=media, 8000]A2BC by Segev Moran posted May 11, 2017 at 12:29 AM[/GALLERY]

4. Evolution and everything else in our universe, is how God "works".

I can't claim it is wrong, as there is no way to falsify such claim.
It will however raise many question that most of them don't paint this God's face in a "bright color".

If you find any of my explanations is wrong, i'll be glad to hear your opinion.

cheers

so...you debate a lot.....
get a life

chemistry and life are not the same thing
science has no explanation for the difference.....when you are alive .....or not

I have no problem with evolution
It's God's handiwork

all of life from one cell?.....
something had to be first

mind and heart in spirit?
Someone had to be first

 

[Polymath257]

chemistry and life are not the same thing
science has no explanation for the difference.....when you are alive .....or not

Actually, we know in some detail what happens when you die and the *chemical* differences between life and death.

For example, in the absence of oxygen, the electron transport chain in mitochondria will not longer produce ATP. That lack will then stop a large variety of metabolic reactions. In particular, the neurons in your brain will cease to function and you then die.

 

[Thief]

Actually, we know in some detail what happens when you die and the *chemical* differences between life and death.

For example, in the absence of oxygen, the electron transport chain in mitochondria will not longer produce ATP. That lack will then stop a large variety of metabolic reactions. In particular, the neurons in your brain will cease to function and you then die.

and people that resuscitate the injured now believe you might be 'there' eight hours
after your last breath
and if we could only revive the severely injured

and the anesthesiologist is still puzzled the lack of pain when the chemistry is applied
(where do you 'go'?)

and doctors still call birth.....a miracle

 

[Polymath257]

and people that resuscitate the injured now believe you might be 'there' eight hours
after your last breath
and if we could only revive the severely injured

Which only substantiates that it is a chemical thing. If the chemistry can be restarted, you will live.

and the anesthesiologist is still puzzled the lack of pain when the chemistry is applied
(where do you 'go'?)

And yet, the application of a chemical is enough to make you 'go' at all. Isn't that interesting?

and doctors still call birth.....a miracle

And yet it is a natural process. No supernatural intervention at all.

 

[Thief]

Which only substantiates that it is a chemical thing. If the chemistry can be restarted, you will live.



And yet, the application of a chemical is enough to make you 'go' at all. Isn't that interesting?



And yet it is a natural process. No supernatural intervention at all.

now you would say.....death is final

and the 7billion plus people on this planet .....are dust walking to the grave

and not one chance in billions that some of us will survive the last breath

and Man is a mystery with no purpose other than more of the same
until extinction

I would then retort....good luck with your coffin

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Kinda like a seed buried in the ground, it yearns to come forth but can be dug up or squashed.
You might can say that a woman can come to full term of childbearing, yet still abort.
In all these examples the natural or what already appears has to yield to the life from within. Corruption has to give way to the incorruptible. Time and space have to give way to eternity "oneness"
I can't tell whom they all are but I can tell you that you have this same cry within you. Scripture calls it the cry of sonship

?????????

 

[Polymath257]

now you would say.....death is final

and the 7billion plus people on this planet .....are dust walking to the grave

and not one chance in billions that some of us will survive the last breath

and Man is a mystery with no purpose other than more of the same
until extinction

I would then retort....good luck with your coffin

A candle gains meaning by shedding light even if it is eventually blown out.

We gain meaning in our lives even if we eventually die.

 

[Thief]

A candle gains meaning by shedding light even if it is eventually blown out.

We gain meaning in our lives even if we eventually die.

let the dead bury the dead
so it is written

 

[Tony L Smith]

ummmm..... WHAT? If you had a message in there, I think it was lost in the New Age Speak.

I am happy to be shown to be wrong about something--but I won't accept "I just feel it in my gut/heart/glands/whatever"

Feeling is never a valid method for discovering new information. It may be used for a hint-- that can indeed, lead to new information.

But the discovery always involves much objective work, never "grit your teeth and wish real hard". That way only leads to madness.

... or religion. (same thing, really.... )

 

[Tony L Smith]

ummmm..... WHAT? If you had a message in there, I think it was lost in the New Age Speak.

I am happy to be shown to be wrong about something--but I won't accept "I just feel it in my gut/heart/glands/whatever"

Feeling is never a valid method for discovering new information. It may be used for a hint-- that can indeed, lead to new information.

But the discovery always involves much objective work, never "grit your teeth and wish real hard". That way only leads to madness.

... or religion. (same thing, really.... )

I only reply in what I believe I see or understand, I assume that is how we all respond. Things are becoming less of a mystery to me, no sure why other than continual seeking.
I agree with feelings are only a hint that can lead to new information. I also believe they are a thermostat that comes out to play when our integrity is sensing non-congruent beliefs although sometimes its hard to read the clues. There is only conflict when we are divided inside our being. Wholeness wants the vessel.
After surrender gritting the teeth is over, at least in the arena where the struggle was.

 

[Tony L Smith]

?????????

Pain can sometimes lead the outer man to create walls. Walls to protect him from outside and walls to protect him from his own integrity. The inner man is subject to the outer man and can not come forth without the consent of the outer man.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

???

Did you forget to say anything?

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

I only reply in what I believe I see or understand, I assume that is how we all respond. Things are becoming less of a mystery to me, no sure why other than continual seeking.
I agree with feelings are only a hint that can lead to new information. I also believe they are a thermostat that comes out to play when our integrity is sensing non-congruent beliefs although sometimes its hard to read the clues. There is only conflict when we are divided inside our being. Wholeness wants the vessel.
After surrender gritting the teeth is over, at least in the arena where the struggle was.

So, you fancy yourself as a poet Tony? Word salad extreme mate...