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Featured The time of Judeo-Christian writings

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Ted Evans, Aug 7, 2017.

  1. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    answered . . .
     
  2. Ted Evans

    Ted Evans Active Member
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    I was shocked to see someone make the claim that the OT has nothing to do with Judaism. Do they think Geneses, Exodus, Leviticus, the Kings, Psalms etc. are all about Christianity and has nothing to do with Judaism? Amazing.
     
  3. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    The problems from the Jewish perspective is not that there is literally 'no relation' at all. Many Jews will have nothing to do with Christian Old Testament, because they consider it a corruption of Jewish scripture, therefore from there perspective it should not be called the Judeo-Christian Bible.
     
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  4. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    I support the claim that the OT as very little to do with Judaism or Christianity, Judaism is the religion of the Talmud ( an interpretation of the OT ), Christianity of the Gospels (interpretation of the OT) and the Quran is the same thing.

    What is Judaism without the Talmud?

    Josephus lists three philosophies 'Pharisee, Sadducee and Essene' , but no religion called 'Judaism' or a religious people called 'Jews'.
     
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  5. Ted Evans

    Ted Evans Active Member
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    Do you have specific verses that would document that corruption?
     
  6. Ted Evans

    Ted Evans Active Member
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    Apparently, you do not believe in the Judeo-Christian scriptures so I fail to see what influence your opinions may have. There are people that probably object to most any subject you wish to state but that does not render a phrase by others as inappropriate. It is used and understood by many for what it is.

    "The basic text of Judeochristianity is the Bible as preserved in Jewish and Christian tradition. It consists of two parts: the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament." Principles of Judeochristianity
     
  7. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    The claims of Christianity that the Hebrew citations in the Torah refer to a virgin and used as prophecy for Jesus Christ birth. The Jews consider this a corruption of scripture.

    I am not personally taking any position, only expressing the Jewish view of the original Hebrew of the Torah.
     
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  8. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    The author of Isaiah being aware of the difference between young woman -עַלְמָה- ( Almah) and Virgin -בְּתוּלָה- ( Bethulah )

    Isaiah 47:1 - Virgin daughter of Babylon
    Isaiah 4:14 - Young woman shall conceive Immanuel

    -עַלְמָה- (Almah) is a feminine form of -עֵלְמַי- (Almiy ) ( Woman from Elam),
    Thus identifying Immanuel as King Cyrus, the Messiah ( Isaiah 45:1)

    Esther 2:17
    And the king loved Esther above all the women, and she obtained grace and favour in his sight more than all the virgins

    Esther was the virgin-daughter of King Cyrus whom married Darius I
    עִמָּנוּ then a corruption of עַמִּינָדָ
     
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  9. Ted Evans

    Ted Evans Active Member
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    Thanks, do you have a link by chance of Orthodox Jews expressing that belief, perhaps a discussion of the verse?
     
  10. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    The "citations" (sic!) in question is Isaiah 7:14. Isaiah is not part of the Torah but, rather, part of the Nevi'im (Prophets) which is, in turn, part of the TaNaKh.
     
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  11. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    Ok, but it remains a corruption of Hebrew scripture.

    Including selective translation and interpretation to justify the Trinity, from the original Hebrew of the collective Torah, Nevi'im, and the TaNaKh.
     
    #191 shunyadragon, Aug 10, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  12. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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  13. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    What specific "selective translation and interpretation to justify the Trinity"? What "original Hebrew"?
     
    #193 Jayhawker Soule, Aug 10, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  14. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    The Hebrew plural for God to justify the Trinity, and other vague references.
     
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  15. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    What selective translation!
     
  16. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    I said also interpretation and the selective translation to justify virgin birth prophecy which you have failed to respond to.
     
  17. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    What selective translation of the Hebrew plural for God?
     
  18. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    This is right.

    This is wrong. If you want to write a woman from a place called עלם ('elam), you would write עלמית ('elamith)., not עלמי. Unless the woman is a man.

    Also, this name is spelled עילם in Tanach. That would make it עילמית.

    If you chance x to a and y to b and z to c, then you have the first three letters of the alphabet! This shows that the last three letters of the alphabet are really the first three letters, thus proving the cyclic nature of the ABC's.

    Two verses earlier, Esther is identified as the daughter of Avichayil, a relative of Mordechai the Benjamite from the Judean Kingdom. A recurring theme throughout the book is that she doesn't want to say that she's really Jewish.

    If you want to say she didn't really exist, that's cool. But you're basically lifting the name of someone out of a text and applying it to something completely unrelated.

    'aminada? This is not good spelling of whatever it is you wanted to write.
     
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  19. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    I believe they consider it a heretical interpretation. Actually I will refer to Timah and other Jews more knowledgeable about these problems than I.

    I notice you designate your belief as Judaism, but you your consistent responses in the threads over time more resemble a Christian apologist perspective, possibly a Jew for Jesus Christ perspective.
     
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  20. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    I found -עַלְמָה- in Ezra 4:9 in Aramaic, only in Aramaic , but i believe Imperial Aramaic was the original language of most of the Old Testament.


    In Est 2:7 Esther is named 'Hadassah' , that is 'Atossa' ( daughter of King Cyrus ) (Wife of Darius I)
    Hutaosā - Hadassah ( the only person with that name i could find in that Period)

    Queen Vashti, the Septuagint calls her 'Astin' , the suffix of Artastūnā (Artystone) (Wife of Darius I

    Two wives of Darius I

    Why would a Zoroastrian marry a Jew or the other way around?
     
    #200 Magus, Aug 11, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
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