Grandliseur
Well-Known Member
That is so funny.
Isn't it hard not to be there when you die?!
Many a times, I wish we had an off button. The earth would be a lot less crowded if we did.
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The threat of eternal damnation is like gun control laws
- Thread starter dfnj
- Start date
Isn't it hard not to be there when you die?!
Many a times, I wish we had an off button. The earth would be a lot less crowded if we did.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
So according to your Christian belief, the righteous dead will resurrect and have a physical body and live in Paradise on earth for eternity? Does that mean you do not believe in a spiritual world?
Grandliseur
Well-Known Member
The spiritual world where angels and God exist in is not for the ordinary human mortal. Most of us wouldn't want that kind of life, no food, no wine, beer, no sex. It's life so alien to ours that it would be undesirable to most of us. Even old, once in a while I have a dream about bedding a beautiful woman. It's nice, it's human, it's what we are. Having a beer once in a while with good music and snack - is also part of what we are.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
We are human but the essence of who we are is spiritual. Didn’t Jesus say that? We are spiritual beings, not physical beings. The physical body is just necessary in this material world to house the immortal soul.
So as spiritual beings it is the spiritual that makes us truly happy, not anything physical. Been there, done that, so I know the difference.
It is very interesting that you say that is what we would want. I do not believe we will care about food, drink or sex in the afterlife if we are truly spiritual when we die. Those who are attached to those things will be in a kind of hell because we will have no physical bodies and won’t be able to have those things anymore.
However, it really is not a matter of what we want; it is a matter of what is. Sure, some people might want to just keep eating, drinking and having sex for eternity but if it came right down to it they would get tired of that after a few hundred years. I am already tired of it and I am not that old! Can you even imagine an eternity eating, drinking and having sex? If there is not something a whole lot better than that in the afterlife I would not want to go.
Sure, we might like good music, food, drink and sex, but what awaits us is so much better than any of that. Admittedly it is not easy not knowing what that will be like but I have faith so I believe it will be what was promised.
That does not mean it will be that way for everyone though. There will be degrees of happiness, and what we will experience will be directly proportional to who we were when we departed out of this world. Baha’is believe that heaven is nearness to God and hell is distance from God, and these are states of the soul. Belief in God’s Messengers is what gets us close to God because that is the only way we can know God. That is why Jesus said:
John 14:6 “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”
1 John 5:13 “I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.”
Continuing an existence like we have here would be hell. That is one reason why God would never create an afterlife like that, not according to my beliefs. That would not be a reward, it would be a punishment.
In short, the afterlife is a complete mystery but what we are told is that it will be free of the fetters of this world, anything of a material nature which weighs us down. Our bodies will be made up of heavenly elements from that spiritual realm. What that means I cannot say. The spiritual world is so different that we could never understand it, which is one reason that the Messengers of God have never tried to describe it... The other reason is as follows:
“Know thou that every hearing ear, if kept pure and undefiled, must, at all times and from every direction, hearken to the voice that uttereth these holy words: “Verily, we are God’s, and to Him shall we return.” The mysteries of man’s physical death and of his return have not been divulged, and still remain unread. By the righteousness of God! Were they to be revealed, they would evoke such fear and sorrow that some would perish, while others would be so filled with gladness as to wish for death, and beseech, with unceasing longing, the one true God—exalted be His glory—to hasten their end.
Death proffereth unto every confident believer the cup that is life indeed. It bestoweth joy, and is the bearer of gladness. It conferreth the gift of everlasting life.
As to those that have tasted of the fruit of man’s earthly existence, which is the recognition of the one true God, exalted be His glory, their life hereafter is such as We are unable to describe. The knowledge thereof is with God, alone, the Lord of all worlds.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 345-346
The passage below is along the same lines. Note that Baha’u’llah says “confident believer” above and below He says “followers of the one true God.” He does not delineate between those who are Jews, Christians, Muslims, or Baha’is or those of other religions because we believe there is Only One God, the God of all the religions. Nor does He designate nonbelievers as those who live in error. I think He was referring to evil souls, those who did evil deeds like murder. But even they can get out of hell by the mercy of God if they repent and supplicate to God..
“It is clear and evident that all men shall, after their physical death, estimate the worth of their deeds, and realize all that their hands have wrought. I swear by the Day Star that shineth above the horizon of Divine power! They that are the followers of the one true God shall, the moment they depart out of this life, experience such joy and gladness as would be impossible to describe, while they that live in error shall be seized with such fear and trembling, and shall be filled with such consternation, as nothing can exceed. Well is it with him that hath quaffed the choice and incorruptible wine of faith through the gracious favor and the manifold bounties of Him Who is the Lord of all Faiths…” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 171
ajay0
Well-Known Member
I forgot to add, intelligent , well-educated, sensitive and cultured.
The guy you have put here suffers from mental illness due to a disturbed childhood. Knowledge is not synonymous with culture and regulated conduct.
Grandliseur
Well-Known Member
Thank you for your hard work. That was interesting. There sure is a lot to contemplate.We are human but the essence of who we are is spiritual. Didn’t Jesus say that? We are spiritual beings, not physical beings. The physical body is just necessary in this material world to house the immortal soul.
So as spiritual beings it is the spiritual that makes us truly happy, not anything physical. Been there, done that, so I know the difference.
It is very interesting that you say that is what we would want. I do not believe we will care about food, drink or sex in the afterlife if we are truly spiritual when we die. Those who are attached to those things will be in a kind of hell because we will have no physical bodies and won’t be able to have those things anymore.
However, it really is not a matter of what we want; it is a matter of what is. Sure, some people might want to just keep eating, drinking and having sex for eternity but if it came right down to it they would get tired of that after a few hundred years. I am already tired of it and I am not that old! Can you even imagine an eternity eating, drinking and having sex? If there is not something a whole lot better than that in the afterlife I would not want to go.
Sure, we might like good music, food, drink and sex, but what awaits us is so much better than any of that. Admittedly it is not easy not knowing what that will be like but I have faith so I believe it will be what was promised.
That does not mean it will be that way for everyone though. There will be degrees of happiness, and what we will experience will be directly proportional to who we were when we departed out of this world. Baha’is believe that heaven is nearness to God and hell is distance from God, and these are states of the soul. Belief in God’s Messengers is what gets us close to God because that is the only way we can know God. That is why Jesus said:
John 14:6 “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”
1 John 5:13 “I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.”
Continuing an existence like we have here would be hell. That is one reason why God would never create an afterlife like that, not according to my beliefs. That would not be a reward, it would be a punishment.
In short, the afterlife is a complete mystery but what we are told is that it will be free of the fetters of this world, anything of a material nature which weighs us down. Our bodies will be made up of heavenly elements from that spiritual realm. What that means I cannot say. The spiritual world is so different that we could never understand it, which is one reason that the Messengers of God have never tried to describe it... The other reason is as follows:
“Know thou that every hearing ear, if kept pure and undefiled, must, at all times and from every direction, hearken to the voice that uttereth these holy words: “Verily, we are God’s, and to Him shall we return.” The mysteries of man’s physical death and of his return have not been divulged, and still remain unread. By the righteousness of God! Were they to be revealed, they would evoke such fear and sorrow that some would perish, while others would be so filled with gladness as to wish for death, and beseech, with unceasing longing, the one true God—exalted be His glory—to hasten their end.
Death proffereth unto every confident believer the cup that is life indeed. It bestoweth joy, and is the bearer of gladness. It conferreth the gift of everlasting life.
As to those that have tasted of the fruit of man’s earthly existence, which is the recognition of the one true God, exalted be His glory, their life hereafter is such as We are unable to describe. The knowledge thereof is with God, alone, the Lord of all worlds.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 345-346
The passage below is along the same lines. Note that Baha’u’llah says “confident believer” above and below He says “followers of the one true God.” He does not delineate between those who are Jews, Christians, Muslims, or Baha’is or those of other religions because we believe there is Only One God, the God of all the religions. Nor does He designate nonbelievers as those who live in error. I think He was referring to evil souls, those who did evil deeds like murder. But even they can get out of hell by the mercy of God if they repent and supplicate to God..
“It is clear and evident that all men shall, after their physical death, estimate the worth of their deeds, and realize all that their hands have wrought. I swear by the Day Star that shineth above the horizon of Divine power! They that are the followers of the one true God shall, the moment they depart out of this life, experience such joy and gladness as would be impossible to describe, while they that live in error shall be seized with such fear and trembling, and shall be filled with such consternation, as nothing can exceed. Well is it with him that hath quaffed the choice and incorruptible wine of faith through the gracious favor and the manifold bounties of Him Who is the Lord of all Faiths…” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 171
They say you will find two surprises in Heaven... those who people thought would never be there and the absense of those you thought would.
Good questions:
1) yes (as most people have a reason for making a fire)
2) wasn't supposed to
3) He did.
2 and 3 don’t seem to make sense as answers to my questions.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
It's fairly normal for such Christians to hear of my experiences, and come to such conclusions. It's as though they just don't want to accept that Christianity doesn't work for everyone, so they take it upon themselves to insist that those who were in my position weren't actually Christian and didn't really follow it right.
Like it or not, I was once Christian, and it was the absolute worst time of my life.
2) the fire was created for Satan and his dominions
3) He sent His son to die on The Cross
when a spirit enters a third density form, it is a soul. animals and plants have souls because of the breath of life, or spirit. when that spirit is no longer resident in the form it no longer a soul. the form is doomed. the Spirit isn't. the form is associated with the senses, or sensual aspects, with the earthly incarnation. the Spirit isn't a form, earthly, or sensual.
this is why it is easier for camel to go through the eye of needle than a rich man to enter in to heaven. when the spirit becomes attached to a form, or earthly things, it becomes harder for it to transition from a third density form to its natural and unconditional state. like an astronaut has trouble adjusting to weightless or weighted atmospheres.
The Law of One (Ra Material)
or
L/L Research - Site Entry page
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
As I asked: Should I go around piercing people because it's what I like?
the fire, or furnace, is a refining experience.
some can walk on a lake of water and not drown.
some can walk through fire and not be burned.
Revelation 3:18
I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
Revelation 20:15
Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
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Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
I do not worry about or concern myself with trying to decide what is divine or not.
It hasn't been a short run improvement. It's been nearly half of my life ago.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
How instead taking the time to get to know them instead of saying "I think they are miserable?" It's very presumptuous and arrogant to insist that someone who says they are fine really isn't.
The original statement was if you are intelligent and well educated religion is not needed. Interestingly we are in the middle of an enviromental meltdown called by some now the antropocene epoch. Reading ancient poetry isn't the causality. The last I checked the intellect is 100% responsible. There are now some even in science that are recognising we have a serious narrative problem that science itself can't fix or be a replacement. So yes the old narrative is badly broken but if we don't start getting some religion about nature then extinction is coming. No technology no science can stop that it's what has created it. That's the old noah story playing out right now, nature alive or extinction. Nature is bigger than the intellect that's a fact. What do you believe those old old stories are about some diety outside nature?, ha ha ha ha. Hardly that's church.
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
What about when the statement from the "parent" is more like the following:
"Don't play with fire or I, personally, will burn you. in fact, I created a burning chamber for this specific purpose. I can't show it to you, because it needs to remain a secret so that you can prove your faith by believing without having seen - just know that it is there. As a matter of fact... you'll never actually hear this from me... you'll only ever hear it secondhand from someone who also believes that the burning chamber exists even though they can offer you no actual proof. Am I a great guy or what?"
If my parents were like this "parent", I hope I would have had the wherewithal to have disowned them long ago.
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
And if the judge instead said:
"If you rob a bank, I am going to put you into a torture chamber, inject you with drugs that will prolong your life indefinitely, and have you tortured for the rest of eternity."
How would you feel about that?
That sounds more like a victim mentality...