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The threat of eternal damnation is like gun control laws

dfnj

Well-Known Member
the soul is destroyed upon physical death. the soul and the spirit is not the same thing. the personality is formed during the earthly experience. it ceases after the earthly experience. like the atheist believes the bible agrees that the dust returns to the earth. the Spirit is another matter both literally and figuratively

Soul, spirit, what difference does it make what word is used. I was talking about after-death conscious part that still experiences self-awareness and pain. You tell me which label to use. Whatever you call that part, that is the part I was talking about.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
Yes... I suppose everybody who is condemned to a punishment doesn't think it is fair and proportionate.

It would be a real shocker if the people who are smug about thinking they will be saved are the ones who will actually be condemned. Pretending to speak for God is probably the height of human hubris and possibly man's greatest possible sin.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Do you care to elaborate?
I am transgender, and went to very Conservative Southern Baptist church, a type of church that is known for traumatizing LBGT youth. I longed for death, cried myself to sleep many nights, thought there was something very wrong with me, I was extremely depressed, very anxious, very miserably, and tried to kill myself once. When I quit and withdrew from the church, the burdens eased, and more so the more I worked to undue the self-hatred that the church instilled in my. Things got so much better that I gained direction in life, learned motivation and developed goals, and I even went from barely graduating high school to graduating college with honors and distinctions.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
Gun control laws are like not having the Tree of Good and Evil in the garden in the first place.

My OP was really not about gun control laws. But now that you bring up the garden of Eden, do you really think our omnipotent God did not know exactly what was going to happen to the apple in the garden with a naked woman prancing about?
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
What does prevent people from sinning against each other is the golden rule.
I find the "golden rule" to be self-centered, putting yourself at the center of how you should behave rather than starting by considering others. If falls short of being a decent and proper standard for morality. Should I walk around with some needles, a clamp, and jewelry and pierce people because I like to be pierced?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
All kinds of beliefs for sure.
In my universe, death is destruction. Only the resurrection, (recreation) makes it possible to live again.

We have so many different views. :)
Yes, I know that is the Christian belief.
My belief is that the physical body once dead is dead and the soul which is the sum total of who we are at the moment of death (our personality) leaves the body and wings its way to the spiritual world and takes on a new form, a spiritual body of some sort.

Yes, we all do have different views. I love to share and learn from others but I do not like to argue. :)
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
My OP was really not about gun control laws. But now that you bring up the garden of Eden, do you really think our omnipotent God did not know exactly what was going to happen to the apple in the garden with a naked woman prancing about?
That's your problem. I am very happy at not being a Bible believer. :D
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I find the "golden rule" to be self-centered, putting yourself at the center of how you should behave rather than starting by considering others. If falls short of being a decent and proper standard for morality. Should I walk around with some needles, a clamp, and jewelry and pierce people because I like to be pierced?
Jesus said to do onto others as you would have them do onto you... In my religion, we say prefer your brother to yourself.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
The teaching of eternal suffering may be shown to be not what is going to happen. The wicked shall sleep eternally, be destroyed. Like a factory, its rejects that cannot be fixed are destroyed.

Nonsense. And omnipotent creator God loves every part of his creation equally. You would think a God of love would prefer rehabilitation over sadism. Surely every piece is worth saving even if it takes a little omnipotent love powers to make a few corrections to a few bad apples. And certainly our omnipotent God of love would be capable of rehabilitating even the very worse possible human being that could ever come into existence.

I would think an omnipotent Creator God would collect every soul. And what difference does it make to all the other people in Heaven who are experiencing eternal heavenly bliss. It's not like having a few bad apples get through the gates is to prevent anyone else from experiencing bliss.

The teaching of eternal suffering may be shown
Once this is recognized, eternal damnation helps me to know what the limits are, what is clearly forbidden; it helps me know that the wicked shall be taken care of and be gone forever.
If you want scriptures on this, look at this link:

I think that is the crux of it. People like the idea of eternal damnation because they take joy in other peoples suffering. Why does it matter to you if the "wicked" are taken care of? You will be too busy experiencing eternal heavenly bliss to care about much of anything else. You will probably be so blissful you will not have any time to experience time.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
When I did accept god, I was sad, lonely, and greatly suffering. I rejected god, and my life has gotten so much better.

I can empathize with your experience. However, please try not to lose sight of the what is divine about living. There are many ways to find and experience God. Find a way that doesn't make you feel sad, lonely, and greatly suffering. For example, raising my children has been the most loving and satisfying experience of my life. My wife is so sacred to me since she is the mother of my children.

In terms of "I rejected god, and my life has gotten so much better" may be true in the short run. But I know many atheists who are just as unhappy with their existential problems as my Christian friends. Some of my atheist friends are nihilists. Yeah, if you talk about meaningful life with my atheist friends they all say their life is full of meaning. But deep down, they seem miserable to me thinking everything in our Universe is just movements of energy repeating in patterns where nothing is more meaningful than anything else. At least the theists get to experience the bliss that comes from having delusional beliefs.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes... I suppose everybody who is condemned to a punishment doesn't think it is fair and proportionate.
And they're not always wrong. Injustice happens, and that's why it's important to always question the judgement, no matter who is doing it.
In what way can allowing eternal torture be EVER fair and proportionate?
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
All kinds of beliefs for sure.
In my universe, death is destruction. Only the resurrection, (recreation) makes it possible to live again.
We have so many different views. :)

When my father died, he did not come back after three days. He was cremated.

I think something happens to us after we die or at the moment of our brain is dying that lasts essentially for all eternity as we experience our last few seconds of time. I hope my father had a peaceful death.

I like the Woody Allen quote: "I'm not afraid of death, I just don't want to be there when it happens."
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
I am transgender, and went to very Conservative Southern Baptist church, a type of church that is known for traumatizing LBGT youth. I longed for death, cried myself to sleep many nights, thought there was something very wrong with me, I was extremely depressed, very anxious, very miserably, and tried to kill myself once. When I quit and withdrew from the church, the burdens eased, and more so the more I worked to undue the self-hatred that the church instilled in my. Things got so much better that I gained direction in life, learned motivation and developed goals, and I even went from barely graduating high school to graduating college with honors and distinctions.

I will never judge you. I would never pretend to speak for God! Who you are is not up to me but for God to judge. Don't let other people judging you bring you down. People only take away from you what you what you let them. Don't let them take anything! Absolutely authority comes from within. Do NOT give away your car keys.

My faith is in a God of unconditional love. As far as I am concerned, you are just as loved as any other part of God's creation. If anyone tells you differently then find people to live around who have love and not hate in their hearts. Good luck!
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
At least the theists get to experience the bliss that comes from having delusional beliefs.
But are they delusional? That is the 100-dollar question.
When we die we will know, or not know anything. :(

I am banking on an afterlife so I am putting money in my bank account... In my beliefs that means I am trying to improve my character, since that is the only thing I will have when I land on the afterlife landing strip. :)
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I've always wondered about that line of thinking.

If I tell my child "Don't play with fire or you will be burnt"... is that a threat or a statement of eventuality?
That depends:

- did you set the fire?
- when you set it, did you know it would burn your child?
- if you could stop him from getting burned, why didn’t you?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
It would be a real shocker if the people who are smug about thinking they will be saved are the ones who will actually be condemned. Pretending to speak for God is probably the height of human hubris and possibly man's greatest possible sin.
And yet you did just that in your OP.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
When I did accept god, I was sad, lonely, and greatly suffering. I rejected god, and my life has gotten so much better.
If that was the case, then my conclusion is that you had accepted a false god, not the One who created and loves you. A false idea of god which only brought oppression instead of the freedom and love found in Christ. I'm glad at least you have freedom from that sad, lonely state. I wasn't really referring to the sadness or loneliness in this life anyway, rather the eternal emptiness of being separated from one's Creator and others forever, alone with only oneself endlessly.
 

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
Yes, we all do have different views. I love to share and learn from others but I do not like to argue. :)
Exactly. Agree. Don't like to argue.
If a Christian, then I don't mind exchanging scripture on issues, but even then each makes his or her own conclusions. I retain the right to make my conclusions; so, others have this same right for themselves.:)
 

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
You will probably be so blissful you will not have any time to experience time.
My beliefs do not incorporate a heavenly bliss for the righteous dead, only a resurrection into Paradise, earth remade into one global rulership under Christ.

There are so many different kinds of beliefs. Even Christian denominations cannot agree.
 
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