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Featured The threat of eternal damnation is like gun control laws

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by dfnj, Jan 1, 2018.

  1. dfnj

    dfnj Well-Known Member

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    I do not think the threat of eternal damnation is necessary. I don't think morality comes from the threat of eternal damnation. People are good people because they believe in the golden rule. People are good people because they have empathy for other people. People who hurt other people are psychopaths who have no empathy. Psychopaths are going to hurt people no matter what. The threat of eternal damnation is like gun control laws. Just like gun control laws do not stop criminals from using guns, the threat of eternal damnation does not prevent or cross the mind of a psychopath who has no empathy for the people they are about to hurt.

    If the threat of eternal damnation did not exist at all things would not be much different than they are now. I think the threat of eternal damnation is a tool used to manipulate people who are afraid into buying more Bibles, paying tithes, or giving money to the Temple in order to supposedly gain God's favor.

    An omnipotent God needs absolutely nothing from us. It's not like it matters how many people go to Heaven or Hell to God. It's not like God will die if not enough people make it into Heaven. So what difference does going to Hell make? The idea of going to Hell exists just to allow people who have hate in their hearts feel a little better in that their desire for revenge will eventually be carried out by God.

    The things is torturing and making someone suffer for all eternity has got to be the greatest possible cruel and unusual punishment. I can't imagine a God of love would be so cruel as to have eternal punishments for finite crimes. It's not like the people Hitler killed are not getting to experience eternal heavenly bliss. I think the idea of eternal suffering is born out of hate held dear by people who are petty and weak minded by not forgiving those who have sinned against them.

    I choose to have faith in a God of love who would never be so cruel as to have eternal punishment.
     
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  2. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    I've always wondered about that line of thinking.

    If I tell my child "Don't play with fire or you will be burnt"... is that a threat or a statement of eventuality?

    Although I will agree that morality doesn't come with the threat of eternal damnation.
     
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  3. Aldrnari

    Aldrnari Active Member

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    The difference, at least to me, is that "hell" is some ephemeral concept that people can never truly see or experience until they die. Conversely, we are confronted by the consequences of gun violence every day in the news, and it is just getting worse and worse. Hell, by happenstance another Las Vegas style mass shooting was thwarted. It was supposed to take place over the New year's day celebrations in Houston.

    Houston police arrested a man with many guns and ammunition in Houston hotel room ahead of New Year's celebrations

    More and more shootings happen here in the US, and it's sad to see how many people are worth being killed before meaningful changes happen.

    I own three rifles myself, by the way... It doesn't take a gun hating zealot to understand that our country has a unique problem that needs to be addressed, imo.
     
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  4. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

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    The threat of eternal damnation is useful for the stupid, superstitious and unintelligent. It will keep them on their toes and make them think twice about robbing their neighbor and so on.

    But at the same time, it is not a model that fits all types, especially the intelligent and well-educated.
     
  5. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    Not a threat.

    But if you say, "If you play with fire, I (or God) will burn you," that's a threat.

    Incidentally, if somebody tells me not to touch a plate, for example, because it is hot, I touch it to find out how hot.

    Likewise with wet paint signs. How wet?
     
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  6. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    True... I don't think that was the message Jesus was giving.
     
  7. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    Then again... when a judge says "if you rob a bank I"M going to send you to jail"... would that be wrong?
     
  8. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    Not an apt analogy unless someone deliberately burnt the child as punishment for playing with fire.
     
  9. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    If the law is rational and the punishment fair and proportionate, no.

    But that can't be said about the concept of eternal torment, obviously.
     
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  10. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Oh I don't know bout that....
    ted-bundy---betrayal.jpg
     
  11. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    The judge is ruling based on laws established by people, and their power is checked by systems to prevent abuse and tyranny. If a judge said 'I think homosexuality is bad so I'm putting you in jail for it,' the judge would be removed. We are not told to believe the judge is all good, all just, and to avoid judgement on the judge.
     
  12. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    I agree that it is God's love which draws people, not the threat of eternal suffering. The Bible does use the word torture because the reality is that God does not torture anyone for eternity. Yet, I believe for a person to reject God's love and end up separated from Him will be eternal self-torment. Torment is the word used in the scriptures and I think God is grieved over those who spurn His love and end up in such a sad, lonely state of self-suffering apart from Him.
     
  13. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    So..... repeal all your gun control laws.
    Are you happy with, say, convicts being able to legally buy and possess pistols, rifles, machine guns? If so, repeal the laws.
     
  14. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    Ted Bundy was a deranged sociopath. Are you suggesting that religion would've cured or at least deterred him?
     
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  15. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find there are two (2) hell teachings:
    One is the non-biblical hell of forever burning but just taught as being Scripture
    The other hell is the Bible's hell: The temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.

    Can we think of anyone righteous who went to hell?______
    The day righteous Jesus died according to Acts of the Apostles 2:27, 31-33 Jesus went to hell the day he died.
    If biblical hell was a permanent place then Jesus would still be in hell.
    Jesus and the old Hebrew Scriptures teach: sleep in death (Not pain )
    Such as found at John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5

    According to Genesis 3:19 Adam ' returned ' to where he started from the dust of the ground.
    So, there was NO post-mortem penalty or punishment for dead Adam just going back to dust.
    A person can Not ' return ' to a place he never was before, so Adam simply went back to where he started.
    The ' dust ' of the ground is Not a forever burning place.

    When the King James Bible translated the word Gehenna into English as hell fire, then Christendom ( Not Scripture ) spread that 'religious-myth literal hell fire forever' teaching, and it spread like ' wild fire ' so to speak, and that is why even in today's Christendom ( so-called Christian world ) still teaches that non-biblical hell as being Scripture.
     
  16. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I was wondering if you would please post where in Scripture there is eternal self-torment.
    Also, what verses do you have in mind about ' torture '.
    Since the wicked are to be ' destroyed forever ' according to Psalms 92:7 then I can't see how a destroyed person could end up with eternal self-torment.
    I find at 2 Peter 3:9 that we have two (2) choices: ' repent ' or ' perish ' (be destroyed) No eternal self-torment.
    Even sinner Satan ends up ' destroyed ' by Jesus according to Hebrews 2:14 B, Not in any eternal life.
     
  17. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    If he cared he would annihilate the soul. Eternal torment is not justice, no matter the crime it'd be inequitable. Nobody asks for or wants eternal torment and keeping them there aganst their will when you have the power to stop it makes you complicit. Either God is responsible for eternal torment or he won't allow it to happen.
     
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  18. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Under the Constitution of the Mosaic Law the punishment fit the crime, in other words, 'equal justice' such as an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life. There was No 'plus' punishment.

    Also I find it interesting that in Scripture a 'tormentor' (Not a torturer) was simply a jailer as found at Matthew 18:34,30
     
  19. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    I didn't say that! Or imply it! I simply responded to the comment. Diego Delanda is always Diego Delanda no matter what point in time you place him. He says exactly the same thing. Diego Delanda burnt the Mayan Texts. They were primative uneducated superstitious people that were not educated like him!!! I was just calling Diego out and it's parroted response of being Intelligent and educated is all. Since it's parroted it's simple behavioralism not actually literally intelligent.
     

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  20. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I notice in the ^ above ^ the word torment is used and Not the word torture. There is a difference.
    Neither: eternal torment nor eternal torture is justice. That punishment would Not fit any crime.
    Jesus taught that to be in fear of Him (God) who can destroy (annihilate) the soul.
    Gospel writer Luke also wrote at Acts of the Apostles 3:23 that the soul can be destroyed.
    Also, I find at Psalms 92:7 that the wicked will be ' destroyed forever ' meaning ' annihilated '.
    So, the God of the Bible won't allow any such torment nor a torturous burning ever.
     
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