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Featured The theory of Everything..the great unifying force

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by dad, Mar 31, 2020.

  1. dad

    dad Undefeated

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    Great Unifying Force



    What force unites all other forces, as well as the quantum world, gravity, space and time? This thread looks at that question from a biblical perspective.



    The bible mentions that by God, all things consist. This suggests He is that great unifying force.



    There are known to be several fundamental forces such as the strong and weak nuclear forces. These forces determine what matter is like in the world and universe around us. Let's look at a few of the mysteries involved with this.



    (Quotes below are from the following site) https://www.khanacademy.org/science/in-in-class-12th-p

    start superscript, minus, end superscript

    hysics-india/nuclei/in-in-nuclear-physics/a/radioactive-decay-types-article


    “Sometimes atoms aren’t happy just being themselves; they suddenly change into completely different atoms, without any warning. This mysterious transformation of one type of element into another is the basis of nuclear reactions, which cause one nucleus to change into a different nucleus. Just like chemical reactions cause compounds to turn into other compounds by swapping their electrons, nuclear reactions happen when the number of protons and neutrons in the nucleus of an atom change.



    Some types of nuclear reactions can actually kick protons out of the nucleus, or convert them into neutrons.”



    “That means that a reaction that changes the number of protons in the nucleus changes what element we actually consider the nucleus to be. This makes beta decay a great example of how nuclear reactions can eerily transform one substance into another.



    In addition to changing its atomic number, the nucleus creates and releases an electron (e-) from the atom that serves to counterbalance the positive charge , it gained by transforming a neutron to a proton. These emitted, free electrons are the “radiation” associated with beta decay. The other released particle v is a mysterious particle called an antineutrino, which has no charge and barely any mass. “



    “The nucleus is made out of a glued-together arrangement of protons and neutrons, but there are multiple possible ways that these protons and neutrons can be arranged. Some of these arrangements have a lower total energy, and so a nucleus in which the protons are initially close together may shift to the lower energy configuration after some time.”



    So these forces act on atoms for reasons we do not really know in ways that change elements from one type to another. Science knows that there must be some force holding atoms together, for example but does not really know what this force is or why it behaves exactly as it is observed to do. This principle extends to the other forces as well such as gravity, electric charges etc. Science knows how these thing work and behave, but not why or how. (if anyone disagrees and would like to show exceptions or etc, feel free)



    Now to connect the dots.



    Jesus demonstrated that He was able to change how things exist and work. He changed water into wine. He changed dead people into living healthy people. He changed deaf ears and blind eyes into healthy organs. He changed the properties of water and/or a human body as He walked on the surface of the lake. He changed the weather. In the old testament, we see that God also changed gravity, in having an ax rise to the surface of the water. He changed time itself apparently, by having the sundial clock reverse a number of degrees. He had the sun stand still. Jesus even said that if we had Him in us and believed, we could speak to a mountain and it would be cast into the sea. All these things and more demonstrate that God controls the forces that exist and which also make matter exist as we know it.

    Having been told He created all thing and that all things exist by Him now, there is a clear connection between the laws and forces that exist and God Himself. He is that force that is greater than all other forces and that is the reason they even exist at all and operate as they do! Therefore Jesus is the great unifying force in the universe.

    Confirmation from other parts of the bible comes in prophecy, as well as the creation week. In the final days, the sun is prophesied to go out! Yet God will have the heat we need still be produced because we know mankind will still be on the planet and alive! This means that Jesus is the real power behind how the sun works! All the stars will go dark in the universe. That means the whole universe is connected to the Unifying Force also, of course!

    In creation week we see that God spoke and all the forces and laws and matter and etc all came together to exist the way He commanded.



    Before the time of the flood, and in the former nature that existed on earth, we see that God stated that in 120 years, He would no longer basically strive with man. In that time, nature was different. (there are various interpretations of this passage, but none really hold water as far as trying to say this meant how long man would now live. Noah, for example, lived hundreds of years even after the flood so the 120 years could not refer to some new lifespan) Spirit beings could marry women and live here at least some of the time, for example. Men lived close to a thousand years. The implication seems to be that God was somewhat more directly involved and affecting the nature of that day. Then He decided to sort of pull back a bit more from the earth and this would have affected how nature would then function!?



    God still was visiting us and talking to prophets and doing miracles and sending angels etc etc etc. It seems that He somewhat changed how He interacted with nature here. Many changes came right at this time when the 120 years were up. (probably around the time of the tower of Babel more than a century after the flood).



    This would also possibly be a reason miracles work and happen. Christians are connected to the Great Unifying force! So if He is in us, then forces and laws and nature can be impacted and changed. This seems to be the way miracles usually happen (Perhaps there are many divine exceptions also, where God does not need to use people) Generally, in both the new and old testaments, miracles happened in connection to apostles and prophets. As Jesus said, if we believe, nothing will be impossible for us.



    These are some thoughts as to why science has not been able to connect the dots on a unified theory of everything.
     
    #1 dad, Mar 31, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
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  2. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Love is patient. Love is kind.

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    This sounds like an interesting topic. Do you have cliff notes?
     
  3. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Already done by Douglas Adams
    Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything is
    8e335eacd99e1e3661bb66aaa5e0d5d0.png
     
  4. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    This seems to be no more than a long-winded way of pointing out that there will always be unanswered questions in science. That is inevitable in science because science is in the end limited by what we can observe about nature. We can only push the boundary forward by making new types of observation, but there will always be a boundary.

    It is no part of science to introduce a deus ex machina explanation (or even a simple deus one!) without any possibility of observations by which it can be tested.

    Your idea may be a religious idea but is not a scientific one. This is fine - all of us are entitled to hold views that go beyond science. Just so long as you do not fool yourself - or others - that it is scientific.
     
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  5. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Far too long of an OP, so I'll hit on just a few issues.

    If I read you correctly, you're talking about Colossians 1:17, in which case it isn't god, but his son Jesus.

    Colossians 1:17 (KJV)
    And he [Jesus] is before all things, and by him all things consist.​

    Or in the ICB version

    Colossians 1:17 (ICB)
    Christ was there before anything was made. And all things continue because of him.

    SO . . .
    If you make a sandwich are you that sandwich?

    If Jesus makes the unifying force is he necessarily that unifying force?

    Of course if you're not talking about Colossians 1:17 how about setting us straight.
    ____________________________________________________________________


    just what forces are you talking about? Most of what you've mentioned are reactions.

    It isn't A force, but forces: the electromagnetic force, strong force, and weak force. The electromagnetic force keeps the electrons attached to the atom. The strong force keeps the protons and neutrons together in the atom. The weak force controls how the atom decays.

    Err . . . Science knows how these thing work and behave, but not why or how ? ? ? ?

    In any case, the how and why:

    In a nucleus wherever possible the nucleons are linked together through exclusive spin pair formation into rings of alpha modules which rotate in four different modes at rapid rates. This rapid rotation results in each nucleon being effectively smeared uniformly throughout a spherical shell.

    The binding energy of a nucleus is also affected by the nonexclusive interactions of nucleons due to their having a nucleonic charge. If the nucleonic charge of a proton is taken to be 1 then statistical analysis of binding energies indicate that the nucleonic charge of a neutron is −2/3. This results in like nucleons being repelled from each other through nucleonic interaction and unlike nucleons being attracted. For the interactions of neutrons with protons in a nucleus to reduce the effect of the repulsion between like nucleons there must be a proper balance between the numbers of neutrons and protons. This balance in heavier nuclei requires about fifty percent more neutrons than protons.

    The nucleons are organized in spherical shells containing at most certain numbers of nucleons. These nuclear magic numbers are explained by a simple algorithm.

    Dynamically a nucleus is basically composed of concentric spherical shells which repel each other. This mutual repulsion results in a stable arrangement in which the centers of the concentric spherical shells coincide. This only occurs for repulsion forces that drop off faster than inverse distance squared.

    Thus a nucleus is held together largely by the linkages created by the formation of spin pairs. The rings of alpha modules rotate to create the dynamic appearance of concentric spherical shells which are held together through the repulsion of the nucleonic forces. Neutron spin pairs outside of the concentric spheres are held by their attraction to the core. So all of the nuclear forces, repulsions as well as attractions, are involved in holding a nucleus together.
    source


    .
     
    #5 Skwim, Mar 31, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
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  6. dad

    dad Undefeated

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    If Jesus is the unifying force I guess that is to be expected, since they have no J factor in their math.

    Not my problem. Just because it must remain a mystery to them, does not mean it does to me.

    The the Great Force that is the reason all other forces exist, and Who controls them all is too big to fit in the science box. OK.

    Since science does not even know what the nuclear strong or weak forces, or gravity, or etc are, of course the answer would not be scientific. They have drawn themselves into a circle that draws answers out.
     
  7. dad

    dad Undefeated

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    He is the word of God and God. He spoke all things into existence and without Him was not anything made that was made.


    If all things consist by Him, and if He controls nature and laws, and also created them, then He is the unifying force. Jesus is One and the same with the Father. He is one God.


    Each of the forces is a force.


    Correct. Can you tell us why there happens to be a strong nuclear force, and why it is exactly as strong as it is? Can you tell us what creates the force?

    So what? Why is there spin? Why is spin the way it is exactly? Why do they rotate in different modes?


    What is the reason they have binding energy? Why do they have a charge?


    So why are like neutrons expelled and why do they have a charge? Why is there an attraction for some?
    Why? Who set that up to be the reality?

    So why is there a balance?
    How do they get organized? Fluke? Who provided the right shaped shells for them?
    Explaining how they work is not the magic.

    So we have repulsion forces and wonderful shells whose centers happen to coicide, and a force that drops at a certain precise rate! Why? How did this machine happen to exist?
    As well as all sorts of other things you mentioned all in a perfect balance.

    Why an attraction to the core? Why the spin? Why are they in pairs!? Why the concentric spheres? Why is there repulsion?

    Yes we can see that!

    Yet they do not know what a single force really is or why.

    Nor are they aware of other forces (the Great Unifying Force of God) that affect all these, and can control how they work and exist.


    .
    [/QUOTE]
     
  8. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member
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  9. Native

    Native Natural Philosopher

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    "God" is Light - Light is Electromagnetism - Electromagnetism unites all forces by working on atoms in different elementary stages with different EM polarities which attracts and repulse in different ranges and charges.

    Electromagnetism is the Cosmology of Light very contrary to the Cosmology of Darkness in the standard model.
     
    #9 Native, Apr 1, 2020
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  10. dad

    dad Undefeated

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    No. Electromagnetism is just one form of light.


    No. It does not unite time and gravity and nuclear forces etc. Nor do we know what causes the attraction and repulsion.
    Nah electromagnetism is basically fishbowl light.
     
  11. Native

    Native Natural Philosopher

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    Native said:
    "God" is Light - Light is Electromagnetism -
    It´s the other way around: Visible (for us humans) light is just a form of electromagnetism as described here.

    I said:
    Electromagnetism unites all forces by working on atoms in different elementary stages with different EM polarities which attracts and repulse in different ranges and charges.
    Time is just a human invention in order to measure motions. It has really nothing to do with space.
    Gravity isn´t even a force, as Einstein said. With different charges and frequencies, Electromagnetism works in both the so called "weak and strong force". It´s just modern astrophysicists who are specialized in different scientific areas who splits up the general EM in different areas.

    Attraction and repulsion is the natural embedded circuit in electromagnetic fields, just as the Earth magnetic spherical field.

    I said:
    Electromagnetism is the Cosmology of Light very contrary to the Cosmology of Darkness in the standard model.
    What kind of reply is this?
     
    #11 Native, Apr 1, 2020
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  12. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    That's fine Dad, nobody says you are not allowed to fill the gap at the end of science with religious ideas, if you want to.

    So long as you don't claim you are doing science when you do that, no scientist should have a problem with it.
     
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  13. dad

    dad Undefeated

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    Right. But that doesn't mean God is electromagnetism and more than He is gravity.

    Why do things have polarity? Does EM work in the quantum world? Does it work on gravity?
    Says you. However, let's see you turn back time as was done for some king in the bible? Or let's see you change all motions simultaneously to get the same result? Clocks are not time, they are just a way to measure time.
    We could call gravity another name than a force, that is fine. Nevertheless the strength of the force is measurable. Observable. An apple falls from a tree with a certain speed and force.
    That says nothing. Rather than explain where these things come from and when and why all you did is call them 'natural'!

    I would tend to agree that light and darkness were not the same. Was there some point you were trying to build up to or was that it?
     
  14. dad

    dad Undefeated

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    What I have a problem with is science trying to fill the gaps of what is not known by offering models of the past that are filled with their beliefs. Then offering this as science.
     
  15. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    Here we go again, Dad. :D

    I'm afraid you can't draw a nice line around the past that tells science it is off-limits. Its methods can be applied to any physical observation and if testable hypotheses result, that's good science.
     
  16. dad

    dad Undefeated

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    They cannot draw a circle that represents the present nature and include the past in there also unless they know it was the same. Otherwise, they are just doodling like toddlers.

    There is no physical observation of nature in the far past. No tests can be done. Any so-called hypothesis based on nature being the same cannot be tested. Therefore it's methods are ignorant methods.
     
  17. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

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    Everything that the Bible described the physical and natural world, are only vague and superficial.

    The Bible never EXPLAIN -
    • WHAT it is,
    • HOW does it work,
    • and when you answer these basic questions, WHAT and HOW to make use of WHAT we do or don’t know

    For example, the Bible never explain what is the heart, how does the heart work, how to treat heart diseases, and so on.

    The Bible isn’t a textbook for biology studies...just as it isn’t a textbook in geology, in astronomy. It isn’t handbooks or blueprints for engineers, eg it doesn’t teach how to build houses, palaces, temples, building ships or chariots. It isn’t instruction manuals of how to fish, how to farm. And so on.

    I know that there are limits to what we can know in science, but there are limitations of the Bible and all other scriptures, eg Torah, Qur’an, etc.

    Your problem dad, is thinking that it can answer everything...it doesn’t. Your problem is also thinking it is science book or history book...it isn’t.

    With science, any explanations must be tested, they must have physical evidence that back up the theories, otherwise, they are science.

    A lot of things the Bible say, is either wrong or outdated or incapable of answering.

    Even when it comes to morality and ethics, the Bible teachings are outdated in their teachings.

    If the Bible teaching on morality is still valid today, then it would be still moral to buy, own or sell slaves, it would be alright to stone women for adultery, burn alleged witches, and kill any pagans.

    Why do you think Jews develop the Oral Torah and Talmud?

    The extra teachings and extra literature attached to their scriptures, is to explain what the Written Torah doesn’t explain.

    I may not always agree with Christian teaching and actions, but early Christian fathers, try to do the same things with the New Testament books, by writing essays and books that explain things the NT doesn’t explain.

    The scriptures cannot be blindly followed.

    Sometimes I can agree with Christians and Jews, and at other times, I would disagree.

    And the Bible doesn’t explain much of anything.
     
  18. Native

    Native Natural Philosopher

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    I said:
    Attraction and repulsion is the natural embedded circuit in electromagnetic fields, just as the Earth magnetic spherical field.
    Because all atoms have natural electromagnetic qualities.

    I said:
    Electromagnetism is the Cosmology of Light very contrary to the Cosmology of Darkness in the standard model.
    That was just my way to describe the different approaches in the cosmological ideas of an Electric Universe versus the theories from the cosmological Standard Model, which operates with all kinds of dark issues of "dark matter"; "dark energy" and "heavy dark holes" etc. etc.

    The proponents of the Standard Model can´t see the the cosmological LIGHT because it´s mostly based on an assumed concept of "gravity" which needs seriously revising in the concept Electromagnetism = Light.
     
  19. dad

    dad Undefeated

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    So what? How and why do these qualities exist?? The issue is not whether science observes stuff. Of course the nature God set up has qualities and rules.

    What does some so-called electric universe have to do with anything here?


    I see. So you are promoting your pet cause.
    The universe you see out there is going to vanish one day. All the stars are going dark. There will be new heaven created, and these ones will simply be no more. There will be no standard model or an electric model universe. Both are wrong.
    The Great Unifying Force and the creator will also control how the new heavens exist, and whatever forces are in place there will all be responsive to Him and His will and word. He controls the forces and laws that are nowhere. They all fall into line and perform like lapdogs to whatever He wants.
    Science sees a disconnect in the macro and quantum worlds. They cannot figure it out because they are missing the big picture and most important force of all.
     
  20. Native

    Native Natural Philosopher

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    As I said before "God" is LIGHT - Light is electromagnetic and that´s why these qualities exist.
    Because everything has electromagnetic qualities even in your very brain.

    I´ll accept the concept of "The Great Unifying Force" but I don´t know which "He" you´re talking of here. Where did you get "Him" from?
     
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