1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The Theory of Creationism (briefly)

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by Jayhawker Soule, Aug 23, 2005.

  1. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    36,698
    Ratings:
    +10,018
    Religion:
    Judaism
    An ugly rumor has been going around campus that science is encroaching on religion. Well, students, nothing is further from the truth. In fact, today we are going to discuss the Theory of Creatonism.

    This will be on the midterm, so please take notes:
    God did it.
    If there are no questions, we'll now move on to a discussion of the role of chloroplasts in ...

    Uh, excuse me Professor, but I have a question. How did God do it?

    It's a mystery. Now, as you know, chloroplasts are ..

    Er ... one more thing Professor: when did God do it?

    That is still in dispute. In any event, it clearly has nothing to do with the core theory. Now, as I was saying, chloroplasts function to ...

    Um ... one last thing, Professor. Could you tell me which God did it?

    <wink> No, not in the class room - but we all know who I'm talking about. </wink>

    Actually, no. Well, no matter. Could you at least tell me how we might test this theory that "God did it"?

    Look, Jimmy, if we call it a "Model" instead of a "Theory" would you be willing to shut up so we can move on to photosynthesis? Now ... damn, the bell! Wait, before you run out, make sure you read the next chapter on Tarot cards. There's a quiz next week.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  2. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    70,248
    Ratings:
    +28,076
    Religion:
    Erotic Dancing Girls
    ROFL! That seems to me to perfectly sum up the "theory" of creationism. :biglaugh:
     
  3. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    28,675
    Ratings:
    +2,658
    That's pretty good, Deut. See what happens when "scientists" try to explain the Bible?

    "God did it." and that's all they "know".

    They're very good at explaining Photosynthesis in light of the Sun, but when it comes to Personal-sin-this-is and the glorious Light of the Son, they get lockjaw.
     
  4. Cynic

    Cynic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,437
    Ratings:
    +182
    Wow, easy credits.
     
  5. JerryL

    JerryL Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,601
    Ratings:
    +313
    I'll assume then that you are a "scientist" as you've offered no other version.
     
  6. Ori

    Ori Angel slayer

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Messages:
    2,947
    Ratings:
    +362
    This can only be deemed as childishness, and I absoloutely love it !
     
  7. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    28,675
    Ratings:
    +2,658
    eeeeeet ... wrong answer! You're looking at the wrong documentation (but what else is new)? Try my profile.
     
  8. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    28,675
    Ratings:
    +2,658
    So do our kids. (But our cats always leave the room when I log on. They're getting tired of this.)
     
  9. JerryL

    JerryL Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,601
    Ratings:
    +313
    OK. I looked at your profile. I foudn no explanation of Creationism there which offered more detailed explanations than the one you criticized "scientists" for having. You have also offered no better an explanation here. I assume, therefore,that you have no better an explanation (which was my original point).

    Not to lecture on debate/discussion methodology, but "that's wrong" is not an argument. To create an actual criticism requires what wrong, and why, and generally a description of the alternative. You've offered none.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    28,675
    Ratings:
    +2,658
    That is absolutely right! I have NO BETTER EXPLANATION of Creation than what the Bible says. You have hit the nail right on the head!

    You just can't improve perfection can you? ;)
     
  11. JerryL

    JerryL Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,601
    Ratings:
    +313
    And what does the Bible say? For example, can you tell me when God did it, or how he created the animals, or which animals he created (you've agreed to speciation as I recall)?

    What caused the fracturing of rock with Uranium in it that indicates millions of years of decay? Why and how did God gradiate the age of rock going from the mid-atlantic ridge outward? How did we come to see stars millions of light-years away?

    Perhaps I'm just missing the Biblical passages. Feel free to paraphrase.
     
  12. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    36,698
    Ratings:
    +10,018
    Religion:
    Judaism
    It's rather hard for me to imagine that they could do worst than Baptists. Be that as it may, you've been given ample opportunity to render your 'explanation' coherent in the thread on Psalm 12:6-7, and that opportunity remains available to you. Here, however, we are speaking about The Theory of Creationism, and I would ask that endeavor to stay on topic. Thanks. :)
     
  13. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    28,675
    Ratings:
    +2,658
    circa 4004 bc

    AND GOD SAID, LET THE WATERS BRING FORTH ABUNDANTLY THE MOVING CREATURE THAT HATH LIFE, AND FOWL THAT MAKY FLY ABOVE THE EARTH IN THE OPEN FIRMAMENT OF HEAVEN. AND GOD CREATED GREAT WHALES, AND EVERY LIVING CREATURE THAT MOVETH, WHICH THE WATERS BROUGHT FORTH ABUNDANTLY, AFTER THEIR KIND AND EVERY WINGED FOWL AFTER HIS KIND: ... AND GOD SAID, LET THE EARTH BRING FORTH THE LIVING CREATURE AFTER HIS KIND, CATTLE, AND CREEPING THING, AND BEAST OF THE EARTH AFTER HIS KIND: AND IT WAS SO. AND GOD MADE THE BEAST OF THE EARTH AFTER HIS KIND, AND CATTLE AFTER THEIR KIND, AND EVERY THING THAT CREEPETH UPON THE EARTH AFTER HIS KIND: - (Genesis 1:20-25).

    God created the Earth with age embedded in it.

    Why = because of sin
    How = a world-wide flood

    WHICH MAKETH ARCTURUS, ORION, AND PLEIADES, AND THE CHAMBERS OF THE SOUTH - (Job 9:9)
    CANST THOU BRING FORTH MAZZAROTH [the constellation in the Zodiac] IN HIS SEASON? - (Job 38:32)
    SEEK HIM THAT MAKETH THE SEVEN STARS AND ORION - (Amos 5:8)

    My pleasure.
     
  14. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    70,248
    Ratings:
    +28,076
    Religion:
    Erotic Dancing Girls
    Av, would you advocate teaching Creationism in science classes?
     
  15. JerryL

    JerryL Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,601
    Ratings:
    +313
    So all Christians agree that the earth is 6009 years old? I thought an awful lot of creationsists were pushing 10,000 while others were "old Earth" creationists and others still were old-Earth evolutionists.

    I asked "how". You did not answer.

    I also asked which. I'll be more specific: were Rotweilders there in 4004BCE?

    You citicized Deut when he said "God did it". You said that this was a bad answer and implied that better answers were there. Please give a non-"god did-it" answer as to why and how.

    Please explain to me how a world-wide flood resulted in a steady increase in apparent age of strata moving from the mid-atlantic ridge out to the shores of South America and Africa. What caused the extra spiral-fractures to appear in the crystline rock, and why is the amount proportional to distance from the mid-atlantic ridge?

    HOW did we come to see stars which are millions of light-years away. I'm not asking for a claim that God created them (that is, after all, another "god did it" response). I'm asking how the light got from there to here. I'm asking how old the light is. I'm asking what fills the gap for millions of light-years in which light should not have yet traveled.

    Did the stars we see actually exist as we currently see them? Of so, when?
     
  16. jonny

    jonny Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    6,260
    Ratings:
    +639
    That's a perfect definition - and it shouldn't be taught in the schools!!!

    I personally don't see a reason to teach "the theory of creationism" in science classes because it ISN'T SCIENTIFIC!!! Parents - not public school teachers - should be teaching their children about religion.

    Also, I don't see why parent's should be so afraid of their children learning these scientific theories about how the world came to be. If God created the laws that govern our world, it only makes sense that he would have to follow the laws that he created. In my mind, when you are learning about science you are learning about God.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. jonny

    jonny Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    6,260
    Ratings:
    +639
    No. I am a Christian and I don't believe the earth is 6009 years old - I believe that human life has existed on this earth for that length of time.

    I don't believe that God created the world in "seven days" because I don't believe that God has days. To me, the "day" used in the creation story is most likely much longer - possibly millions of years.
     
  18. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    28,675
    Ratings:
    +2,658
    Apparent not from reading these posts. You'll have to ask them. "I" say 4004 bc, and I'm sticking to it.

    I gave you the answer God wanted us to know. If you want the 411 on it, ask Him to answer your post.

    No. God created the animals "after his kind". Meaning He created the Genera, not the Species. The different Species come from genetic entropy.

    You'll have to refresh my memory on that one.

    Well I'm not an expert on geology, but either the flood or the splitting of Pangea, or both.

    God created the Universe in the palm of His hand, then stretched it to its current dimensions. I'd give you the references, but my keyboard is getting tired.

    Yes (and I think I know what's coming, but I'm ready). God not only created them, but He named them and put them in their current places. They form a pictograph of the plan of salvation. For instance, when Jesus died on the cross in April, the Sun went dark from noon to three, and Aries, the Lamb of God Slain from the Foundation of the World, shone brightly above Him.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. JerryL

    JerryL Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,601
    Ratings:
    +313
    It's also not a theory (it makes no falsifiable predictions... well, it does but they've all been falisfied) and it's not a hypothesis (it doesn't fit all known facts). It's mostly just an assertion.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. JerryL

    JerryL Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,601
    Ratings:
    +313
    I'm sure each individual evolitionist has an individual answer that they will stick with as well... but obviously creationists as a whole lack a date.

    The answer you have given me is "God did it, I don't know how", which is entirely consistant with Deut's original claim (which you have railed against). You've flopped postions.

    So was "dog" big or small? Yippy of woofy? Brown? Black? Grey?

    Refresh your memory on your comments in the past 24 hours on this thread? You must be joking.

    Deut's claim: "creation theory" amounts to "God did it"
    You: No, it doesn't.
    Me: What caused the fracturing of rock with Uranium in it that indicates millions of years of decay?
    You: God did it.

    See where you agreed with Deut and contradicted yourself?

    So "you don't know"... You've argued as to the claim of creationsim from a position of ignorance.

    BTW, neither accounts for a false, but graduated age.

    HOW? I'm asking how the light got from there to here. I'm asking how old the light is. I'm asking what fills the gap for millions of light-years in which light should not have yet traveled.

    I don't think your assertion is even Biblically consistant.

    But did they actually exist AS I CURRENTLY SEE THEM, and how come you didn't answer my "if so, when"? How old is the light I'm looking at when I see a star a million light-years away? Is it a million years old? If it's younger, how much younger?

    Can you answer any of the questions I'm posting with something other than "god did it"?
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...