The System Works! A Quarter of all US children went hungry last year!

[Magic Man]

It looks like simple math to me. One person working 40 hours a week would make enough for two people to be above the poverty line. So much for the straw man argument that poor people are too busy working to find time to cook.

I'm sorry. I must have missed that simple math. All I have is my easy math that says that someone making $10/hr. for 40 hours a week would make $1,600 a month before taxes. After taxes, let's say that's $1,300. I don't know about you, but i'd have a real tough time supporting me and a kid on that. $700 for a crappy apartment, $150 for gas, electric and phone bill, $250 for food. That leaves $200 a month for transportation, clothing and anything else that comes up. That also leaves out healthcare of any kind.

Maybe in some parts of the country the poverty line can sustain people, but not around here. The point is the poverty line isn't the end all be all.

So, so much for the false argument that saying that many poor people are too busy to cook food is a strawman. Wanna try again?

 

[Magic Man]

Never mind. I see this thread has become one long rant from Kathryn about responsibility and how all poor people have to do is work harder and take responsibility for things, and they'll magically get out of poverty.

 

[JMorris]

Never mind. I see this thread has become one long rant from Kathryn about responsibility and how all poor people have to do is work harder and take responsibility for things, and they'll magically get out of poverty.

YAY MAGIC!:drool: what the poor REALLY need to do is learn some sorcery.

 

[McBell]

I'm sorry. I must have missed that simple math. All I have is my easy math that says that someone making $10/hr. for 40 hours a week would make $1,600 a month before taxes. After taxes, let's say that's $1,300. I don't know about you, but i'd have a real tough time supporting me and a kid on that. $700 for a crappy apartment, $150 for gas, electric and phone bill, $250 for food. That leaves $200 a month for transportation, clothing and anything else that comes up. That also leaves out healthcare of any kind.

you forget toilet paper, shampoo, soap, toothpaste, etc.
It adds up pretty friggin quick.

 

[rojse]

you forget toilet paper, shampoo, soap, toothpaste, etc.
It adds up pretty friggin quick.

What, do people actually use that sort of stuff?

 

[Kathryn]

I'm sorry. I must have missed that simple math. All I have is my easy math that says that someone making $10/hr. for 40 hours a week would make $1,600 a month before taxes. After taxes, let's say that's $1,300. I don't know about you, but i'd have a real tough time supporting me and a kid on that. $700 for a crappy apartment, $150 for gas, electric and phone bill, $250 for food. That leaves $200 a month for transportation, clothing and anything else that comes up. That also leaves out healthcare of any kind.

Maybe in some parts of the country the poverty line can sustain people, but not around here. The point is the poverty line isn't the end all be all.

So, so much for the false argument that saying that many poor people are too busy to cook food is a strawman. Wanna try again?

You're absolutely right - a person would have a tough time making it on one income of minimum wage. But most households are not made of one person making minimum wage.

And remember - the thread was about hungry children. So - according to federal standards of poverty, if a household with one or two children was only bringing in one minimum wage paycheck, it would also qualify for the WIC program, HeadStart, two free meals per day in school for 16 years, state subsidized health insurance for the kids, MediCaid, subsidized housing (so the rent wouldn't be $700), and probably food stamps.

In addition to those state and federal funds, there are also private charities, like food pantries, churches, local education programs, Boys and Girls Clubs, United Way, Shriners, etc that are also available in nearly all areas.

No, it wouldn't be easy - but living on minimum wage should be a temporary state of being, not a permanent state. Personally, I don't even KNOW anyone who makes minimum wage - even the fast food restaurants around here pay more than minimum wage - for unskilled teenagers.

 

[Kathryn]

Never mind. I see this thread has become one long rant from Kathryn about responsibility and how all poor people have to do is work harder and take responsibility for things, and they'll magically get out of poverty.

First of all, if you will actually read what I've posted, you'll see that what you're saying is not the case. What I am saying is that it's not primarily "the System's" responsibility to take care of kids - first and foremost, it's the parents' responsibility.

Only when they fail should The System step in - and then, the best programs The System should offer should include components that encourage and empower people to make positive changes and embrace their responsibilities rather than become permanent wards of the state, either literally or figuratively (permanent food stamps, subsidized housing, etc when a person is actually able to work and get out of that state-subsidized rut).

But thanks for proving my earlier point - some people really, really hate that "R" word.

 

[rojse]

But thanks for proving my earlier point - some people really, really hate that "R" word.

Rand? Rant? No, they're the same.

 

[Kathryn]

Rand? Rant? No, they're the same.

(Kathryn walks over and kicks Rojse in the shin because his name starts with "R".)

 

[blackout]

YAY MAGIC!:drool: what the poor REALLY need to do is learn some sorcery.

I'm on that.

I'll let you know when it's paid off in 'coinage'.

(it will)

 

[blackout]

Only when they fail should The System step in - .

Honey, people working full time PLUS...
sometimes two fulltime jobs at once,
plus OVERTIME...
getting NO DAMNED SLEEP...
ARE NOT FAILING!

It is THE SYSTEM that is failing.
It is the system that is failing these people.
The SYSTEM is failing ordinary people
working all the hours they can to make an honest living.

You've got it backwards.

*feels like a broken record*

 

[Kathryn]

UV, I know that you feel this way, and that perhaps you are working more than full time and still struggling to make ends meet. You're going by personal anecdote, and I can't and won't discredit your own personal struggles. I have no idea what string of personal decisions or circumstances landed you in the situation you're in and I'm not prepared or qualified to judge your situation.

However, I have my own personal anecdotes regarding living in abject poverty and getting out of it. I got out of it by making better personal decisions, and yes, I did use state and federal programs temporarily in order to get out of the pitiful situation that I had gotten myself into - as well as using common sense, a work ethic, and applying better moral values to my life.

In other words, taking responsibility for my own family and myself.

My point is that state and federal programs have a place in situations of poverty, but that to truly escape poverty long term, one has to make different, more sound decisions generally. My goal is to get people PERMANENTLY OUT OF POVERTY rather than create wards of the state - which is what long term welfare recipients are (and by welfare I mean any state or federal assistance).

State and federal programs, as well as private charity, have their place, but the best results are obtained when we combine teaching practical life skills, better decision making empowerment, and encouraging personal accountability alongside TEMPORARY (in cases other than permanent disabilities) aid.

I think you have it backwards - why start blaming "the system" (whatever that is) first instead of expecting people to make good choices first?

 

[Magic Man]

You're absolutely right - a person would have a tough time making it on one income of minimum wage. But most households are not made of one person making minimum wage.

And remember - the thread was about hungry children. So - according to federal standards of poverty, if a household with one or two children was only bringing in one minimum wage paycheck, it would also qualify for the WIC program, HeadStart, two free meals per day in school for 16 years, state subsidized health insurance for the kids, MediCaid, subsidized housing (so the rent wouldn't be $700), and probably food stamps.

In addition to those state and federal funds, there are also private charities, like food pantries, churches, local education programs, Boys and Girls Clubs, United Way, Shriners, etc that are also available in nearly all areas.

No, it wouldn't be easy - but living on minimum wage should be a temporary state of being, not a permanent state. Personally, I don't even KNOW anyone who makes minimum wage - even the fast food restaurants around here pay more than minimum wage - for unskilled teenagers.

I guess you missed the fact that my example was considerably more than minimum wage and considerably higher than the poverty line. Don't let that bother you, though. Keep on ranting.

 

[Magic Man]

But thanks for proving my earlier point - some people really, really hate that "R" word.

:biglaugh: You're too funny. Yeah, that's what it is. No one likes responsibility. You've figured it all out. Good work.

 

[blackout]

UV, I know that you feel this way, and that perhaps you are working more than full time and still struggling to make ends meet. You're going by personal anecdote, and I can't and won't discredit your own personal struggles. I have no idea what string of personal decisions or circumstances landed you in the situation you're in and I'm not prepared or qualified to judge your situation...................................................................



I think you have it backwards - why start blaming "the system" (whatever that is) first instead of expecting people to make good choices first?

I don't "feel" this way.

this is how it is.

You obviously don't read my posts.
I have put details of my personal situation up SO MANY times,
i'm tired of doing it.

You wanna know what my "big mistake" was?
My big "irresponsability" that messed me up economically?

Getting married and having 3 more children.
I tried to make "good choices".
I tried to do the right thing,
marry my daughters father,
follow the teachings of the catholic church
in hopes of some great "family life" experience.
As was practically PROMISED by said church.
You know... "For every child God provides".

Bull-****.

Now I love my kids dearly,
and I wouldn't trade them for anything,
but if I had stayed UNMARRIED,
a single mother...
this NEVER would have happened.

I had a THRIVING business.
I supported me and my first born just fine,
all on my own.
I lost it all.
If I had left well enough alone,
me and my oldest daughter would not be in the **** hole we're in now.

i can't even afford to get her driving for god's sake.

Do you have ANY IDEA how much that hurts me?

I'll say it one more time.
Three full time jobs plus overtime.
NOT minimum wage even.
Six people. ****. We buy NOTHING.

**** i can't even afford to get divorced.
WE WILL LOSE THE KIDS' HOUSE if I leave.

And don't think I'm not doing anything.
I'm a kick *** musician.
But it takes time to start your life over from scratch at 41
after ten years of playing nothing but vapid, useless church music for pay.

You think you can just put four + sets of professionally arranged/performed/memorized/improvized songs together overnight?

The kind of help I NEED, no one is willing to give.

So hopefully i don't lose the damn house before I can turn things around.

and if I do, so what right? It's not like i'll be the first.

I'm so ******* tired of repeating myself.
Do NOT tell me my life is some anecdote in need of analyzation.

i already told you where I "failed" economically.

I take full responsibility for being retarded enough to listen to some damn church's pie in the sky promises.

You know, I'm not even mad, though it may sound it.

I'm just so sick of typing my own "anecdote" over and over and over again,
so you can brush it aside over and over and over again.

here is my advice to everyone.
DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN UNLESS YOU HAVE ALOT OF MONEY.
period. No matter how much you love every last one of them,
you still need to be able to support them.

 

[blackout]

I've just decided this is the absolute LAST TIME i will post about my personal economic situation.

i will not come in these threads again.

 

[enchanted_one1975]

Honey, people working full time PLUS...
sometimes two fulltime jobs at once,
plus OVERTIME...
getting NO DAMNED SLEEP...
ARE NOT FAILING!

It is THE SYSTEM that is failing.
It is the system that is failing these people.
The SYSTEM is failing ordinary people
working all the hours they can to make an honest living.

You've got it backwards.

*feels like a broken record*

Personally, I go to work for 90 days straight at a time, without going home, to try to take care of my family. My fiance still had to get a job. For the amount of time I spend at work I should have some really exotic stuff at home, and I don't. Yes, it is the system. We need to stop weakening the dang dollar so the ones we have could be worth something.

 

[Kathryn]

You know what - I don't kick a dog when he's down. I just know that the more good decisions you make, the better your life is, and the more stupid decisions you make, the more your life sucks.

It's constructive to help people make better decisions in their lives. Don't compromise your values, put your children first because they didn't ask to be here, and strive for excellence in all you do.

Your life will be better than it would be if you continue making self destructive decisions.

It worked for me and it works for a lot of other people - especially people who are not perpetual victims.

I don't know what you're doing that creates an unworkable situation but - the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. If what you're doing isn't working - re evaluate. Be honest about your own shortcomings and stupid choices and make a change.

I too, am done with this thread.

 

[Magic Man]

You know what - I don't kick a dog when he's down. I just know that the more good decisions you make, the better your life is, and the more stupid decisions you make, the more your life sucks.

Oh, if only life were that simple. It would be nice, wouldn't it?

It's constructive to help people make better decisions in their lives.

Sure, it is. Unfortunately, it's not the be-all-end-all of methods to eliminate poverty.

I too, am done with this thread.

OK, good. Now, we can get to some intelligent conversation, rather than just "Poor people are all irresponsible".

 

[McBell]

You know what - I don't kick a dog when he's down.

well good for the dog.
To bad you do not treat people with the same consideration.