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The Sufi Shaykh

Monotheist 101

Well-Known Member
I have been attracted to the Sufi Ideology and was very conflicted regarding this matter..I came across a few good defenses for both sides.

After months of trying to figure out whether I should embrace the Sufi ideology..I have decided against it..based on the fact that there are no concrete links with Sufism to early Islam..rather its roots are based on christian and gnostic traditions coupled with the "divine" attitude of leaders of Sufi orders, Ive chosen to reject it.

[youtube]aJWGZAoymzA[/youtube]
Nazim Haqqani Al Naqshbandi no longer accountable to Allah, the pen is lifted the Sufi says - YouTube


Discuss.
 
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Alulu

Member
Why judge Sufism or Sufis based on the actions of just one tariqah? The naqshbandi-haqqani one. There are many more tariqahs worldwide that differ alot from the Haqqanis in their practices.

Sufism has never been considered an ideology by orthodox Sunni scholars. It is an approach or way of life to deepen your Islam and worship of God. All Islamic countries have been highly influenced by Sufi scholars. From Morocco to Egypt to Indonesia & Pakistan you will find traditions that are directly related to Sufi practices. Orthodox Sunni Islam-universities such as Al Azhar in Egypt, Zaitouna in Tunis, al Qarawiyyin in Fes and many more ascribe themselves to "the path of Junaid", their spiritual approach to Islam. If your familiar with Junaid you know what that means, if not I advice you to read about him. Read or study classic texts at those universities and you'll find it explicitly mentioned.

If your uncomfortable with certain statements made by a certain Sufi shaykh it is better to look for another one that suits you better. Assuming your interested to get in contact with one ofcourse. Regarding his statements I am not sure what it is exactly that you find troubling.
 

Monotheist 101

Well-Known Member
Yes I am aware of Junaid Al Baghdadi..IMO the best Sufi Shaykh.. I agree with alot of the earlier Sufis..my conflict starts with Al Arabi and pantheism/wahdat ul wujood..I find the separation between man and God crucial to the foundations of my faith.

I am aware of how Sufism has influenced Islamic civilization throughout history..both good and bad.

The trouble is that when looking up Sufism..I havent managed to find a middle ground..On one side it comes across as the pure essence of Islam on the other end of the spectrum its painted as a web of innovations.

I am aware that Junaid Baghdadi rejected anything that didnt agree with the Quran and Sunnah and was a well versed scholar of his time acknowledged by the likes of Ibn Taymiyah..
Are there any Tareeqahs present today that follow the Quran and Sunnah and reject concepts that dont agree with them? If so please refer me to them..I am more than interested...I like to test the water before jumping into it..unfortunately its been freezing the last few times.

As per what I find troubling about the above video..is the claim that he is allowed to sin and the pens have been lifted..due to his high level of prestige..I dont think any man can claim that..
In contrast..
Junaid Baghdadi kept reciting the Quran on his deathbed..His student asked him why he was doing so..to which he replied.."No one is more in need of this than I" an attitude I would expect from a genuine Wali.
 
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Alulu

Member
Yes I am aware of Junaid Al Baghdadi..IMO the best Sufi Shaykh.. I agree with alot of the earlier Sufis..my conflict starts with Al Arabi and pantheism/wahdat ul wujood..I find the separation between man and God crucial to the foundations of my faith.

Wahdat al wujud is widely taken out of context, it is by (certain) Muslims and non-Muslims presented as if it is the fundamental teaching Sufism is all about nowadays. Wahdat al wujud is redefined by Naqshbandi-mujaddadis as wahdat as-shuhud. Which is explained as "seeing Allahs Oneness in all His Creation and nothing else except that". Just as someone totally fond of a certain painter will directly recognize through his paintings that it "his favorite painter who made that one"...they aim to come to a point where they only see Allah in each o his creation. A type of awareness.

Naqshbandi Mujaddadis are very orthodox, no pictures for example, no mixing between sexes at all, no music, no loud group dhikr (only silent group dhikr) etc etc. They are mainly Pakistani in origin but a presentative and very inspirational speaker of them lives in Canada, Shaykh Abdul Sattar Hussein. Shaykh Zulfikar is the shaykh of the tariqah. Here you can find very good English lectures of them and they also explain principles of their tariqah:
Sacred Learning

Remember that each tariqah has its own approach and principles.
Most tariqahs are not international in their outlook and therefore not known to foreigners. Chechnya is full of Qadiris but despite of videos online of them doing dhikr they are not like the Haqqanis international in their approach. Globalisation did not reach them (yet), so to say.

I am aware of how Sufism has influenced Islamic civilization throughout history..both good and bad.

The trouble is that when looking up Sufism..I havent managed to find a middle ground..On one side it comes across as the pure essence of Islam on the other end of the spectrum its painted as a web of innovations.

Yes, Sufism like all "groupy things" centered around a leader can be abused to become a "cult like" thing. But if you have explored different Muslim groups nowadays that goes for all of the groups, the possibility to turn into a cult or have some of its characteristics.

Regarding innovations is very simple, tariqahs stick (or should) to a madhab in fiqh issues. And I know that three of the four madhabs accept the divide between a good and bad innovation. If your sheikh gives you adkar (prayers) or a wird to recite daily after having prayed the early morning prayer there is nothing wrong with it according to the madhabs..as long as you (or the sheikh) does not mention it to be religiously wajib (obligatory). Salafis would argue its an innovation because the prophet did not do it and therefore impermissible. But this reasoning according to te majority of the madhabs insufficient.

I am aware that Junaid Baghdadi rejected anything that didnt agree with the Quran and Sunnah and was a well versed scholar of his time acknowledged by the likes of Ibn Taymiyah..
Are there any Tareeqahs present today that follow the Quran and Sunnah and reject concepts that dont agree with them? If so please refer me to them..I am more than interested.

Junayd was a Hanbali in fiqh. Quran and Sunnah is traditionally interpreted bu the four Sunni madhabs. The Shafiis and early Shaffiis permitted under cirumstances group dhikr, a practice many (but not all!) Sufis do. If this is what you mean you should get into the legal reasoning of this madhab for permitting it. It all comes back to the question whether there is a good innovation (linguistically) or not.

As per what I find troubling about the above video..is the claim that he is allowed to sin and the pens have been lifted..due to his high level of prestige..I dont think any man can claim that..
In contrast..
Junaid Baghdadi kept reciting the Quran on his deathbed..His student asked him why he was doing so..to which he replied.."No one is more in need of this than I" an attitude I would expect from a genuine Wali.

After having taken a quick look at the video I agree a 100% with you.
 

Yusz

Exorcist and Mystical
Salam

If you want to start to understand sufism, you need to finish either Sunni/Shia School first, or you must be an expert at least, it's a basics of Sufism.... if not, then you will not understand sufism teaching even a simple word of it... It's like, you want to be a pilot, you need to study physics(Sunni/Shia teaching) first, and then you do a practical(Sufism) ... you can't fly an aeroplane without having a practical, and you can't be a pilot if you not finish your physics study first....


Ramadan Mubarak brother
 

Monotheist 101

Well-Known Member
Salam

If you want to start to understand sufism, you need to finish either Sunni/Shia School first, or you must be an expert at least, it's a basics of Sufism.... if not, then you will not understand sufism teaching even a simple word of it... It's like, you want to be a pilot, you need to study physics(Sunni/Shia teaching) first, and then you do a practical(Sufism) ... you can't fly an aeroplane without having a practical, and you can't be a pilot if you not finish your physics study first....


Ramadan Mubarak brother

If that is true..why do alot of experts of Sharia oppose Sufism? Did they not understand it aswell? or do they have to study physics more? :)

I appreciate your reply.. I am not looking to dive headfirst into Sufism..it is something that I find intriguing and keep coming back to over and over(unfortunately most sources ive found are biased both ways and was misled into believing all of Sufism was innovation...But I have found alot of Good answers to my questions) in it..and the smarter approach for me is to reject the negative and accept the positives also my questions regarding the Jinn and Spirituality has caused alot of my learned peers to ask me to look into a Tareeqa.. I am wanting to test the waters and read up on different tareeqas doctrines before practically accepting them.

Ramadan Mubarak to you too Bro :)

P.S do you mind if I open a thread and ask you something exorcism related..
 
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Yusz

Exorcist and Mystical
or at least you need start believing one another(Sunni/Shia and Quranist too) ... put aside history, look forward, it's about us and future now... turn off our computer, stop reading , go outside, see the real world, throw our ego, find a real good teacher, that's a Sufism :)...
 

Monotheist 101

Well-Known Member
or at least you need start believing one another(Sunni/Shia and Quranist too) ... put aside history, look forward, it's about us and future now... turn off our computer, stop reading , go outside, see the real world, throw our ego, find a real good teacher, that's a Sufism :)...

I cant put aside history..I am more inclined to the Sunni view its seems more rational, and everyone including Ali has asked us to be with the majority and not be divided..I want to make sure the teacher and his doctrine is good..before I get into it..the problem with the real world is that there aren't many Sufis going around..or not a diverse group atleast in my part of the world..I am well aware of some innovations which I want to guard from..dont you think a cautious approach is smarter?..in person all the Sufis i've met have convinced me that their way is the right way..and I even felt my heart wanting to believe them and their emotional stories..but on further research thanks to the internet and my computer I am glad I didnt give in..

Eitherway I feel that the Sufi way of life will have a huge part to play in my life if its a long one inshallah..at the moment I'm a student in final year of Uni..I cant give everything up and shun responsibilities to my family..they have invested alot of time and money in me and I believe rather than follow a Tareeqa my first responsibility is to look after them for as long as they are alive..In the meantime I am trying to prepare myself and find a tareeqa that suits me..

I dont agree with complete seclusion..atleast not in the stage that I am in.. Junaid Baghdadi was also known as Junaid Khazzazi..meaning person who sells fine clothes and silk..I find him to be quite insightful and having a more balanced approach to spirituality..
 
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Yusz

Exorcist and Mystical
If that is true..why do alot of experts of Sharia oppose Sufism? Did they not understand it aswell? or do they have to study physics more? :)

I appreciate your reply.. I am not looking to dive headfirst into Sufism..it is something that I find intriguing and keep coming back to over and over(unfortunately most sources ive found are biased both ways and was misled into believing all of Sufism was innovation...But I have found alot of Good(answers to my questions) in it..and the smarter approach for me is to reject the negative and accept the positives)also my questions regarding the Jinn and Spirituality has caused alot of my learned peers to ask me to look into a Tareeqa.. I am wanting to test the waters and read up on different tareeqas doctrines before practically accepting them.

Ramadan Mubarak to you too Bro :)

P.S do you mind if I open a thread and ask you something exorcism related..

Sharia who oppose Sufism, they need to study physics more brother :D ...

At Tareeqa teaching, they focus more to knowledge of self, rather than Jinn and spirituality thing... Jin and Spirituality, you can understand it at Haqeeqa and Marifa level... Some teacher can only teach Tareeqa only and can't teach Haqeeqa and Marifa, even a pilot has a rank right? ... So you need to know yourself first, which is the batin (inner aspect) from Tareeqa, then you can move to Haqeeqa teaching.... but you need to be an expert at Tareeqa first before you move to Haqeeqa...


P.S : you can open a thread, but i will answer maybe 2-3 days from now, because i need go work outstation now... thanks
 

Yusz

Exorcist and Mystical
I cant put aside history..I am more inclined to the Sunni view its seems more rational, and everyone including Ali has asked us to be with the majority and not be divided..I want to make sure the teacher and his doctrine is good..before I get into it..the problem with the real world is that there aren't many Sufis going around..or not a diverse group atleast in my part of the world..I am well aware of some innovations which I want to guard from..dont you think a cautious approach is smarter?..in person all the Sufis i've met have convinced me that their way is the right way..and I even felt my heart wanting to believe them..but on further research thanks to the internet and my computer I am glad I didnt give in..

Eitherway I feel that the Sufi way of life will have a huge part to play in my life if its a long one inshallah..at the moment I'm a student in final year of Uni..I cant give everything up and shun responsibilities to my family..they have invested alot of time and money in me and I believe rather than follow a Tareeqa my first responsibility is to look after them for as long as they are alive..In the meantime I am trying to prepare myself and find a tareeqa that suits me..

I dont agree with complete seclusion..atleast not in the stage that I am in.. Junaid Baghdadi was also known as Junaid Khazzazi..meaning person who sells fine clothes and silk..I find him to be quite insightful and having a more balanced approach to spirituality..

So then, you are not ready yet brother... you in study right?, then you have time, to be an expert of Sharia first... you are young, and no need to rushing :) .... because you need at least a month for yourself to study more deeper, at least a month forget about the money and the world. Even Prophet Muhammad need a quite retreat to Cave of Hira, to get something right? :) ...
 

Monotheist 101

Well-Known Member
So then, you are not ready yet brother... you in study right?, then you have time, to be an expert of Sharia first... you are young, and no need to rushing :) .... because you need at least a month for yourself to study more deeper, at least a month forget about the money and the world. Even Prophet Muhammad need a quite retreat to Cave of Hira, to get something right? :) ...

Exactly what I thought..at the moment my world includes my parents and I cannot forget about that for a day let alone a month.

I appreciate your genuine response.:)
 

Monotheist 101

Well-Known Member
Monotheist brother no response to me post?

Bro I gave it a frubal as soon as I read it..

It was the most informative and most appreciated out of all of them..:)..I am looking at the website you recommended..I will get back to you about what I find in a few days..too sleepy atm..
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
***Mod post***

Thread reopened. Some posts in this thread have been deleted due to violation of the rules.

Please put in mind rules 1, 3 and 10 while posting in this thread.
 

Alulu

Member
Bro I gave it a frubal as soon as I read it..

It was the most informative and most appreciated out of all of them..:)..I am looking at the website you recommended..I will get back to you about what I find in a few days..too sleepy atm..

Ok excuse me, didnt know that. Anyway being critical nowadays about many groups among Muslims (including Sufi's) is something I consider to be necessary. I myself have come to the conclusion that Tasawwuf (the science of the heart is never called "Sufism" in classical Islamic texts actually) is an important part in fully completing your Islam and relationship with the Almighty. That does not necessarily mean you have to belong to a tariqah. Contemporary scholars in the West who do accept Tasawwuf wholeheartedly but are not to fond of joining a tariqah are for example Shaykh Hamza Yusuf and Imam Suhaib Webb (both Americans). Both agree and regularly talk about "purification of the heart", cite traditional scholars such as Imam al-Muhasibi etc etc. But are not part of any existing Sufi tariqah.

I am personally not related to any tariqah nor actively looking to join one. However I do think it is something (joining a tariqah) that could strengthen my Islam significantly. Assuming I find one that I'm comfortable with, which I would not be with a Shaykh saying things as the one did in the video you presented. For now I am a normal Muslim performing the basic obligations of Islam and once in a while having an Iman boost and at other times weak. The higher spiritual station of ihsan is something that is far away from me now. Alone and by myself it will be difficult for me to achieve that due to different reasons. In that case a good and dedicated tariqah or Shaykh could be a solution. Could be.

I know that the Habaaib from Yemen visit once in a while your country Australia. Almost all of them are from Hadramawt, a famous place in the history of Islam & Yemen. Shaykh Kadhim al-Saqqaf, Shaykh Habib Umar, Shaykh Habib Ali al-Jifri etc. They are staunch followers of the Shafi'i school of law in fiqh issues and in my opinion a shining example of authentic Islam.
Most of them follow the Ba 'Alaawi tariqah. I found one of their famous littanies called Ratib al-Haddad and highly benefitted from it when I read it daily before fajr-prayer. You can find it here: [youtube]O-7ozhnakIQ[/youtube]
Ratib Al-Haddad - YouTube

The Ba 'Alaawi's and Yemeni scholars I mentioned previously are also well-known in South East Asian countries such as Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore. This is due to the importance Yemeni Sufi's played in the past when they migrated to these countries and the local people got to know Islam from them. In some of those countries you'll therefore find Yemeni descendants from Hadramawt.
 
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