The Story of Job- God's Bet With the Devil

[Thief]

Which leads to the question as to why God needed to prove a point to the Devil?

God wasn't trying to prove anything.
The Sons of God did gather and among them stood the devil.
Slighting the devil's presence by a comparison to a mortal servant....is an insult.

He allowed the devil any indiscretion, except to kill Job.

By what the devil did perform....
the devil proved himself unworthy....to himself....
that he is unworthy to stand among the Sons of God.

Heaven already knew such things.

 

[smokydot]

God wasn't trying to prove anything.
The Sons of God did gather and among them stood the devil.
Slighting the devil's presence by a comparison to a mortal servant....is an insult.

There's nothing in the text of the Chritian Bible about comparing Satan to a mortal.

The Sons of God along with Satan, the accuser, presented themselves before the LORD.
God asked where Satan had come from. He replied from roaming to and fro through the earth (looking for someone to accuse before God).
God asked him if he had considered his servant, Job--no one on earth like him, blameless and upright, fearing God and shunning evil.
Satan challenges God, saying Job is God-fearing only because God blesses him so abundantly.
And the contest is entered.

It had nothing to do with "slighting" Satan's presence.
It was about looking for someone to accuse before God.

He allowed the devil any indiscretion, except to kill Job.
By what the devil did perform....
the devil proved himself unworthy....to himself....
that he is unworthy to stand among the Sons of God.

He was already called Satan, the accuser.
He is mentioned separately from the Sons of God. . .because he was already not one.

Heaven already knew such things.

Indeed they did, before Satan, the accuser, ever showed up for this meeting.

Job was put through this for the sake of the promised Messiah, who in studying the Scriptures would understand the nature of what he would undertake.
Job was a picture (type) of the Messiah:
---the Righteous One (Ac 7:52, 3:14)
---sorely afflicted by God (Is 53:3-5)
---because of a controversy with Satan (Ge 3:15; Jn 12:31; Mt 12:29; Lk 10:18-19),
---who was emptied and humbled (Php 2:5-8)
---for his greater glory (Heb 12:2; Php 2:9-11; 2 Co 4:17),
---and exalted to intercede for his friends (Ac 2:33; Heb 7:25; confer Job 45:7-10).

 

[Thief]

There's nothing in the text of the Chritian Bible about comparing Satan to a mortal.

The Sons of God along with Satan, the accuser, presented themselves before the LORD.
God asked where Satan had come from. He replied from roaming to and fro through the earth (looking for someone to accuse before God).

Nay...it was a way of declaring his presence without God's permission or allowance....as if he belonged there.

God asked him if he had considered his servant, Job (mortal)--no one on earth like him, blameless and upright, fearing God and shunning evil.
Satan challenges God, saying Job is God-fearing only because God blesses him so abundantly.
And the contest is entered.

Not a contest.

It had nothing to do with "slighting" Satan's presence.

What...you don't know insults when delivered?

It was about looking for someone to accuse before God.
He was already called Satan, the accuser.
He is mentioned separately from the Sons of God. . .because he was already not one.
Indeed they did, before Satan, the accuser, ever showed up for this meeting.

Job was put through this for the sake of the promised Messiah, who in studying the Scriptures would understand the nature of what he would undertake.
Job was a picture (type) of the Messiah:
---the Righteous One (Ac 7:52, 3:14)
---sorely afflicted by God (Is 53:3-5)
---because of a controversy with Satan (Ge 3:15; Jn 12:31; Mt 12:29; Lk 10:18-19),
---who was emptied and humbled (Php 2:5-8)
---for his greater glory (Heb 12:2; Php 2:9-11; 2 Co 4:17),
---and exalted to intercede for his friends (Ac 2:33; Heb 7:25; confer Job 45:7-10).

There's that rant again.

 

[smokydot]

There's that rant again.

Sorry you are uncomfortable with the light which the NT sheds on the OT account of Job.

Sorry for you that you feel the NT Word of God written is rant.

But for those who believe in Jesus, the Christ, they are the words of eternal life.

 

[Thief]

Sorry you are uncomfortable with the light which the NT sheds on the OT account of Job.

Sorry for you that you feel the NT Word of God written is rant.

But for those who believe in Jesus Christ, they are the words of eternal life.

Incorrect assumptions on all points.

 

[Twilight Hue]

God wasn't trying to prove anything.

Of course God was trying to prove a point in the story. Using NIV, God was bragging on about Job to Satan, and Satan countered Gods brag. God decided then to set up a challenge and to prove to Satan otherwise that he was wrong.

Looking at verses 8-12, you could of fooled me otherwise. LOL

 

[smokydot]

Incorrect assumptions on all points.

So you say. . .and I say they are correct. . .both are just opinions.

 

[Thief]

Of course God was trying to prove a point in the story. Using NIV, God was bragging on about Job to Satan, and Satan countered Gods brag. God decided then to set up a challenge and to prove to Satan otherwise that he was wrong.

Looking at verses 8-12, you could of fooled me otherwise. LOL

And most people are fooled....

I've written about this topic repeatedly here at the forum.
And like you....most people look to the book of Job and then use words such as....
contest, bet, wager, test, temptation, trial,...etc....etc...

None are correct.

The devil came, with the Sons of God, as if he belonged among them.

No one needed proof...he did not belong.
Everyone at hand ....already knew it.

Job, on the other hand was completely blindsided.
He got his *** kicked by someone who knows how to do so.
There was no warning.

That was not a test.
God knew His servant.

And the Sons of God were silent.

The only person with something to prove was the devil.
And he could have conceded the insult...without harm to Job.

Why did the devil then proceed?
(I 'bet' you don't know)

 

[Twilight Hue]

And most people are fooled....

I've written about this topic repeatedly here at the forum.
And like you....most people look to the book of Job and then use words such as....
contest, bet, wager, test, temptation, trial,...etc....etc...

None are correct......

.....The only person with something to prove was the devil.
And he could have conceded the insult...without harm to Job.

Why did the devil then proceed?
(I 'bet' you don't know)

Your explanation dosent fit in very well based on how this account is written out and the order that its written.

The rest is simply your personal additions and speculation to this tale simply due to the fact that no reason whatsoever is presented in the story as to even why the angels were approaching God, and in no way addresses the intent of the angels other than that of it being a presentation, and after God asked him why he was there, Satan only replied that he was walking back and forth on the earth.

According to the story and how its written, It is God firstly proposing the challenge based on his initial bragging to Satan. Not Satan at all who in fact did not even initially bring anything up in way of a challenge in the first place.
So God according to the story is the one clearly trying to prove a point because he was the one who proposed it in the first place to support his bragging and Satan only explained the reasons why.

Let me give you this. If not trying to prove a point, as you maintain, why did God then even first bring it up?

(I 'bet' you don't know).

Its pretty easy and straightforward to see that, according to the story, that God is trying to prove a point to Satan. Not the other way around because Satan would have initially proposed the challenge of which, according to this story, initially proposed no such thing whatsoever.

 

[Thief]

Your explanation dosent fit in very well based on how this account is written out and the order that its written.

The rest is simply your personal additions and speculation to this tale simply due to the fact that no reason whatsoever is presented in the story as to even why the angels were approaching God, and in no way addresses the intent of the angels other than that of it being a presentation,
And Sons don't find occasion to be with their Father?
and after God asked him why he was there, Satan only replied that he was walking back and forth on the earth.
As if he belonged there, not needing God's approval or allowance.

According to the story and how its written, It is God firstly proposing the challenge based on his initial bragging to Satan.
Satan wasn't bragging...God came asking.
Not Satan at all who in fact did not even initially bring anything up in way of a challenge in the first place.
Nay...Satan was objecting to the comparison made.

So God according to the story is the one clearly trying to prove a point because he was the one who proposed it in the first place to support his bragging and Satan only explained the reasons why.

Satan made a remark depicting the character of Job to be less than it should be....to ease the insult of comparison.
It would be up to Satan to bolster the claim.
And God stood back and allowed it....short of killing Job.
And the Sons of God were silent.

Let me give you this. If not trying to prove a point, as you maintain, why did God then even first bring it up?

(I 'bet' you don't know).

Its pretty easy and straightforward to see that, according to the story, that God is trying to prove a point to Satan. Not the other way around because Satan would have initially proposed the challenge of which, according to this story, initially proposed no such thing whatsoever.

So...like most people you have read it wrong...and you can't see it as it should be.

God wasn't 'betting' anything.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

And most people are fooled....

I've written about this topic repeatedly here at the forum.
And like you....most people look to the book of Job and then use words such as....
contest, bet, wager, test, temptation, trial,...etc....etc...

None are correct.

The devil came, with the Sons of God, as if he belonged among them.

No one needed proof...he did not belong.

This brings up another issue: the Book of Job definitely makes Satan appear to be a faithful servant of God.

Everyone at hand ....already knew it.

Job, on the other hand was completely blindsided.
He got his *** kicked by someone who knows how to do so.
There was no warning.

That was not a test.
God knew His servant.

And the Sons of God were silent.

The only person with something to prove was the devil.
And he could have conceded the insult...without harm to Job.

Why did the devil then proceed?
(I 'bet' you don't know)

Why did God proceed in the first place? Job wasn't even an issue until God brought him up. Didn't God foresee what Satan would say once God mentioned Job?

The story describes something other than your interpretation: God boasts to the angels and Satan about how good a man Job is. Satan then questions how good he really is. God's pride can't take this, so he suggests the test to show that he's right... despite the horrible personal cost to Job and all those around him. God even sets the rules for the test and gives Satan explicit permission to inflict horrible suffering on Job's loved ones.

God carries a huge amount of the responsibility and guilt in this story.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Whose idea was it to torture Jobe in ther first place-- God or Satan's?

I think it was Satan who opined that Jobe loved God only because he had been given so many good things.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Whose idea was it to torture Jobe in ther first place-- God or Satan's?

I think it was Satan who opined that Jobe loved God only because he had been given so many good things.

... and it was God who chose to prove this wrong by having Job suffer. Also, the idea that Satan could do whatever he wanted to Job's family came straight from God without any prompting from Satan.

 

[Midnight Pete]

... and it was God who chose to prove this wrong by having Job suffer. Also, the idea that Satan could do whatever he wanted to Job's family came straight from God without any prompting from Satan.

Not true.

It was Satan who suggested the conditional nature of Jobe's love for God and it was he who did all those terrible things to him. But the one thing Satan was not allowed to do was kill Jobe outright.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Not true.

It was Satan who suggested the conditional nature of Jobe's love for God and it was he who did all those terrible things to him.

... after God made the suggestion of how Job could be tested.

And after God brought up the whole matter in the first place with his boasting about how pious Job was.

But the one thing Satan was not allowed to do was kill Jobe outright.

Right: God gave Satan carte blanche to do whatever he wanted to the people surrounding Job: inflict horrible suffering on them, kill them outright, it was all above-board by the rules that God gave for the test.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Do you recall how the story ended? Jobe was restored. He was restored to where he'd been before ... and then some. Everything that had been done to him was reversed.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Do you recall how the story ended? Jobe was restored. He was restored to where he'd been before ... and then some. Everything that had been done to him was reversed.

Job was restored - he even got new, better-looking sons and daughters. His original sons and daughters stayed dead, though.

Edit: out of curiosity - if I burn down your house, leave you to live on the street for a few days, and then give you a better house than you had originally, have I done anything wrong?

 

[Midnight Pete]

Job was restored - he even got new, better-looking sons and daughters. His original sons and daughters stayed dead, though.

Edit: out of curiosity - if I burn down your house, leave you to live on the street for a few days, and then give you a better house than you had originally, have I done anything wrong?

I don't think it's humanly possible to do what was done to Jobe.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Job was restored - he even got new, better-looking sons and daughters. His original sons and daughters stayed dead, though.

Keeping in mind the sons and daughters were human beings no different than Job.

I ask, Wheres the son's and daughter's compensation in the story then?
and
Does the Bible even bother to address this oversight?
I say not.

Way the story is written, collateral damage in way of killing innocent human beings while amidst proving a point to Satan is obviously no big deal, and of no concern, as long as Job stays alive in the end just so God can win the challenge over Satan.

One totally crazy story with basically nothing to gain or learn from it.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Keeping in mind the sons and daughters were human beings no different than Job.

I ask, Wheres the son's and daughter's compensation in the story then?
and
Does the Bible even bother to address this oversight?
I say not.

Way the story is written, collateral damage in way of killing innocent human beings while amidst proving a point to Satan is obviously no big deal, and of no concern, as long as Job stays alive in the end just so God can win the challenge over Satan.

One totally crazy story with basically nothing to gain or learn from it.

Some of these Bible stories are easier to understand than others, I'll have to admit. Was there really a man called Jobe? I don't know.