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The sramana (ascetic people/ origin of Jain and buddhism)

AL2020

Universale communication
Do you know more?
The Sramanas, wandering monks, outside the caste system who dedicated their lives to spiritual work like ascète.

We do not know their exact origin (maybe chamanic origin /sramana would be same like the word chamane)

, but it seems to be rooted in a very distant past of India ... we notably found illustrations of a character in a hatha-yoga position from the Indus civilization (and therefore prior to the arrival of Arya and Vedism).

-one version say
There have been Sramana currents opposed to vedas (known as "nastika"),

Sramana should be the ancestor of religion
like
Ajivika, Jainism and Buddhism (which originated in eastern India, little influenced by the arya installed to the west ... further proof that the sramana are of non-Aryan origin);

-other version say the sraman traditions often merged into brahmanism, and became very important aspects of hinduism (such as yoga).
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
From what I have read (from Wikipedia, though my understanding goes a little beyond it), Shramana, Saman, Shaman, Chamane, is Asian and Indo-European. Perhaps these Shramanas (wandering monks) were the first Indo-Europeans to come to India (mythologically, Sage Parashara). These monks mixed the Indo-European and indigenous philosophies and that is what blossomed into Hinduism in time. IVC had trading connections with Middle-East as well as Central Asia.

Important to consider, IMV:
Perhaps India too had its shamanic tradition prior to coming of Indo-Europeans/Aryans.
Why should we make it solely Mongolic/Central Asian or Indian?
Yes, views differ. If we had shramanas following Vedic tradition, some Indian shramanas would have been opposed to it.
 
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AL2020

Universale communication
You seem to know very well thanks you !!!are you from india or America or Europe?

Here if you Can comment this information ?

Etymology and origin
One of the earliest recorded uses of the word śramaṇa, in the sense of a mendicant, is in verse 4.3.22 of the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad composed by about the 6th century BCE.[14]:48[16] The concept of renunciation and monk-like lifestyle is found in Vedic literature, with terms such as yatis, rishis, and śramaṇas.[17][18] The Vedic literature from pre-1000 BCE era, mentions Muni (मुनि, monks, mendicants, holy man).[19] Rig Veda, for example, in Book 10 Chapter 136, mentions mendicants as those with kēśin (केशिन्, long-haired) and mala clothes (मल, dirty, soil-colored, yellow, orange, saffron) engaged in the affairs of mananat (mind, meditation).[20]

केश्यग्निं केशी विषं केशी बिभर्ति रोदसी । केशी विश्वं स्वर्दृशे केशीदं ज्योतिरुच्यते ॥१॥
मुनयो वातरशनाः पिशङ्गा वसते मला । वातस्यानु ध्राजिं यन्ति यद्देवासो अविक्षत ॥२॥
He with the long loose locks (of hair) supports Agni, and moisture, heaven, and earth; He is all sky to look upon: he with long hair is called this light.
The Munis, girdled with the wind, wear garments of soil hue; They, following the wind's swift course, go where the Gods have gone before.

— Rig Veda, Hymn 10.136.1-2[20][19]
The hymn uses the term vātaraśana (वातरशन) which means "girdled with wind".[21][22] Some scholars have interpreted this to mean "sky-clad, naked monk" and therefore a synonym for Digambara (a Jainism sect). However, other scholars state that this could not be the correct interpretation because it is inconsistent with the words that immediately follow, "wearing soil-hued garments". The context likely means that the poet is describing the "munis" as moving like the wind, their garments pressed by the wind. According to Olivelle, it is unlikely that the vātaraśana implies a class within the Vedic context.[23]

The earliest known explicit use of the term śramaṇa is found in section 2.7 of the Taittiriya Aranyaka, a layer within the Yajurveda (~1000 BCE, a scripture of Hinduism). It mentions śramaṇa Rishis and celibate Rishis.[24][25]

Buddhist commentaries associate the word's etymology with the quieting (samita) of evil (pāpa) as in the following phrase from the 3rd century BCE Dhammapada, verse 265: samitattā pāpānaŋ ʻsamaṇoʼ ti pavuccati ("someone who has pacified evil is called samaṇa").[note 2]

The word śramaṇa is postulated to be derived from the verbal root śram, meaning "to exert effort, labor or to perform austerity".[3] The history of wandering monks in ancient India is partly untraceable. The term 'parivrajaka' was perhaps applicable to all the peripatetic monks of India, such as those found in Buddhism, Jainism and Hinduism.[26]

The śramaṇa refers to a variety of renunciate ascetic traditions from the middle of the 1st millennium BCE.[11] The śramaṇas were individual, experiential and free-form traditions.[11] The term "śramaṇas" is used sometimes to contrast them with "Brahmins" in terms of their religious models.[11] Part of the śramaṇa tradition retained their distinct identity from Hinduism by rejecting the epistemic authority of the Vedas, while a part of the śramaṇa tradition became part of Hinduism as one stage in the Ashrama dharma, that is as renunciate sannyasins.[11][27]

Pali samaṇa has been suggested as the ultimate origin of the word Evenki сама̄н (samān) "shaman", possibly via Middle Chinese or Tocharian B; however, the etymology of this word, which is also found in other Tungusic languages, is controversial (see Shamanism § Etymology).
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
IMV? IVC?
I thought it was an accepted internet short. IMV: In My View. IVC: Indus Valley Civilization.
I am an Indian from Delhi. Genealogically supposed to be of Kamboja/Aryan descent.
I too appreciate your interest in the subject. But, pardon me, is it just for knowledge or there is some other reason also?

Edited and reposting: Another connection (and this one is for farther consideration) would be the wandering monks singing traditional lore. SamaVeda. The Sami. I am always fascinated by the similarity of the two words.
Also of the tradition of extempore poetry. In Sanskrit they are known as 'Ashukavi' and there are competitions as to who can do it better.
 
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AL2020

Universale communication
Iam french and like to know all religion

It's important to Ask somebody inside it s better .

India is a very close World for occidental . Even if there are many books it s not easy .
 

Nyingjé Tso

Tänpa Yungdrung zhab pä tän gyur jig
Vanakkam Al, et bienvenue :D

Sorry I don't really understand your posts, are you looking for hinduism ressources or more like debate/historical stuff ?

Take Care :)
 

AL2020

Universale communication
Yes i liké to know with précision so it s better to know by expert

And people from india from inside hinduism country

is also very good because hinduism is not easy to cerne to know even there are many books

We understand it sometimes by occidental orientaliste They dont really understand it
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
It's important to Ask somebody inside it s better.
India is a very close World for occidental. Even if there are many books it s not easy .
Yeah, asking practicing Hindus. I second that. It is a good way to know things. Reading books takes a long time.
Hinduism has a lot of variety. Some people worship tens of deities, some persons are atheists. And there is no central scripture/book, no central church/authority, or person who started it. Very different from Abrahamic religions. It is a free form religion.
 
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AL2020

Universale communication
Différence sramana with sadhou ans sanyasin?

Somebody told me sanyasin Come from shankara ? Or before ?

Sadhu - Wikipedia

Sadhu (IAST: sādhu (male), sādhvī or sādhvīne (female)), also spelled saddhu, is a religious ascetic, mendicant or any holy person in Hinduism and Jainism who has renounced the worldly life.[1][2][3] They are sometimes alternatively referred to as jogi, sannyasi or vairagi.[1]

It literally means one who practises a ″sadhana″ or keenly follows a path of spiritual discipline.[4] Although the vast majority of sādhus are yogīs, not all yogīs are sādhus. The sādhu is solely dedicated to achieving mokṣa (liberation), the fourth and final aśrama (stage of life), through meditation and contemplation of Brahman. Sādhus often wear simple clothing, such saffron-coloured clothing in Hinduism, white or nothing in Jainism, symbolising their sannyāsa (renunciation of worldly possessions). A female mendicant in Hinduism and Jainism is often called a sadhvi, or in some texts as aryika.[2][3]
 
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