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SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
God the Father, in Christian theology, is equally pure spirit. So is the Holy Spirit and the Word of God, the latter being a Divine Person that assumed a human nature but remains unchanged in his divine essence, despite now taking on a human mind and soul.

God, pure and simple, is a spirit in Christianity.

That given, would you say that the conceptualization outlined in the OP might be reversed? Might the Holy Spirit be equated with Saguna Brahman and the Father be equated with Nirguna Brahman?

Or would you go as far as to say that there is no equivalent in Christianity to Nirguna Brahman?
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
That given, would you say that the conceptualization outlined in the OP might be reversed? Might the Holy Spirit be equated with Saguna Brahman and the Father be equated with Nirguna Brahman?

It might be more accurate to say that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are "God with qualities" (akin to Saguna Brahman), whereas the Divine Essence that they all share as One Godhead is "God without qualities" (akin to Nirguna Brahman).

The "Who" of God, are the Persons, while the "What" of God is the Essence.

In terms of the 'What,' - and this applies to each Person who is fully God and thus shares the one divine essence - I can affirm nothing. In His Essence, God is unknowable, ineffable and beyond human cognition, comparison or imagination. As St. John of Damascus (675 - 749) explained: "It is impossible to portray one who is without body: invisible, uncircumscribed and without form."

In terms of 'Who,' I can describe Him by referring to the revealed qualities of the Three Persons.

In The Book of the Twelve Beguines, the Catholic mystic Ruysbroeck writes:


"...There is a distinction and differentiation, according to our reason, between God and the Godhead, between action and rest.

The fruitful nature of the Persons [of the Trinity], ever worketh in living differentiation.

But the Simple Being of God, according to the nature [essence] thereof, is an Eternal Rest of God and of all created things
..."

- Blessed John of Ruysbroeck (1293 - 1381), The Sparkling Stone
 
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This thread is inspired by the discussion in another, and the question posed is primarily geared toward those who have an anthropomorphic view of God (though anyone is free to chime in).

It was postulated in another thread that, like humans, God has a spirit that is the equivalent of Nirguna Brahman (Brahman without qualities) in Hinduism, and God Himself is equivalent to Saguna Brahman (Brahman with qualities). It was suggested that the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost (the being that impregnated the Virgin Mary with Jesus) of the Trinity is God's impersonal aspect, or aspect without qualities.

In your view, does God, like humans, have a spirit?

What are your thoughts?


*Apologies for the misnomer. By 'God' I'm actually meaning the 'Father' aspect of God.

My view is that God is a concious, intelligent, infinite, eternal energy, that created the universe.

Hows that? :D
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
In your view, does God, like humans, have a spirit?

What are your thoughts?
In Advaita Vedanta, God/Brahman is pure undifferentiated consciousness in being-bliss-awareness (sat-cit-Ananda).

So I guess my best answer is 'the question is not rightly put'.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
In Advaita Vedanta, God/Brahman is pure undifferentiated consciousness in being-bliss-awareness (sat-cit-Ananda).

So I guess my best answer is 'the question is not rightly put'.

Does Advaita Vedanta make a distinction between Saguna Brahman and Nirguna Brahman?
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
This thread is inspired by the discussion in another, and the question posed is primarily geared toward those who have an anthropomorphic view of God (though anyone is free to chime in).

It was postulated in another thread that, like humans, God has a spirit that is the equivalent of Nirguna Brahman (Brahman without qualities) in Hinduism, and God Himself is equivalent to Saguna Brahman (Brahman with qualities). It was suggested that the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost (the being that impregnated the Virgin Mary with Jesus) of the Trinity is God's impersonal aspect, or aspect without qualities.

In your view, does God, like humans, have a spirit?

What are your thoughts?


*Apologies for the misnomer. By 'God' I'm actually meaning the 'Father' aspect of God.
if you chose to skip my post.....ok....
I don't think of God as human

as for interfering with Man's development and direction
I suppose you could call Him.......Father

most fathers give direction
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Does Advaita Vedanta make a distinction between Saguna Brahman and Nirguna Brahman?
I will quote the Advaita Vedanta understanding <from Wikipedia>

According to Advaita as taught by Sankara, saguna brahman refers to the Lord identical with his own infinite jnanam. Sankara refers to him by names such as Shiva, Vishnu as specified in the vedas and upanishads.This saguna brahman is eternal, undecaying and non-differentiated from nirguna brahman.He is not affected even when he appears in this world as he controls the effects of his own maya shakti.

So I guess the answer in my more colloquial tone is that Saguna Brahman is Nirguna Brahma (that mysterious infinite consciousness) along with his infinite knowledge.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
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WalterTrull

Godfella
Interesting. Care to elaborate?

The concept of an anthropomorphic God, a separate entity with human desires in control of the universe, I think unravels in the light of observation and reason. If the choice is to believe or not believe in that God, atheism is the logical choice. lI don’t believe those are the choices.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
I will quote the Advaita Vedanta understanding <from Wikipedia>

According to Advaita as taught by Sankara, saguna brahman refers to the Lord identical with his own infinite jnanam. Sankara refers to him by names such as Shiva, Vishnu as specified in the vedas and upanishads.This saguna brahman is eternal, undecaying and non-differentiated from nirguna brahman.He is not affected even when he appears in this world as he controls the effects of his own maya shakti.

So I guess the answer in my more colloquial tone is that Saguna Brahman is Nirguna Brahma (that mysterious infinite consciousness) along with his infinite knowledge.
that would make sense that in this world he controls the effects of his own maya shakti, wielding the power that it is, self control.


that which knows it's self knows, the lord



here again we see itself


Two birds, beautiful of wings, close companions, cling to one common tree: of the two one eats the sweet fruit of that tree; the other eats not but watches his companion. The self is the bird that sits immersed on the common tree; but because he is not lord he is bewildered and has sorrow. But when he sees that other who is the Lord and the beloved, he knows that all is His greatness and his sorrow passes away from him. When, a seer, he sees the Golden-hued, the maker, the Lord, the Spirit who is the source of Brahman, then he becomes the knower and shakes from his wings sin and virtue; pure of all stains he reaches the supreme identity.

-Translation of Verses 1-3 of Third Mundaka Upanishad by Sri Aurobindo.



act One, scene n = n + 1 the show must go on.

putting on my pasties as i write. cue the music. now where did they put the pole? giggles
 
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SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
I will quote the Advaita Vedanta understanding <from Wikipedia>

According to Advaita as taught by Sankara, saguna brahman refers to the Lord identical with his own infinite jnanam. Sankara refers to him by names such as Shiva, Vishnu as specified in the vedas and upanishads.This saguna brahman is eternal, undecaying and non-differentiated from nirguna brahman.He is not affected even when he appears in this world as he controls the effects of his own maya shakti.

So I guess the answer in my more colloquial tone is that Saguna Brahman is Nirguna Brahma (that mysterious infinite consciousness) along with his infinite knowledge.

So it appears the question was, indeed, "rightly put."

Now, rather than insulting my intelligence in my understanding of Advaita Vedanta (which at this point appears to be the only reason you responded to this thread at all), would you like to take a stab at the questions posed in the OP?
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
So it appears the question was, indeed, "rightly put."

Now, rather than insulting my intelligence in my knowledge of Advaita Vedanta (which at this point appears to be the only reason you responded to this thread at all), would you like to take a stab at the questions posed in the OP?
Salix...you apparently read more negativity from me than I intended to put out there. These are difficult subjects to discuss. But I will get this back on track.

The question posed in the OP was: In your view, does God, like humans, have a spirit?

So for me, God is pure consciousness, the idea of 'having a spirit' does not make sense. If something is One and undifferentiated then that defines it. To me the question you ask is like; does a stick of butter have butter in it.

Again, no offense intended, just trying to think this out.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Salix...you apparently read more negativity from me than I intended to put out there. These are difficult subjects to discuss. But I will get this back on track.

The question posed in the OP was: In your view, does God, like humans, have a spirit?

So for me, God is pure consciousness, the idea of 'having a spirit' does not make sense. If something is One and undifferentiated then that defines it. To me the question you ask is like; does a stick of butter have butter in it.

Again, no offense intended, just trying to think this out.

Thanks for the clarification. And for the record, I share your view that Saguna Brahman undifferentianted Nirguna Brahman.

The purpose of the questions in the OP is to explore the notion that, as with Saguna Brahman and Nirguna Brahman, if such a parallel exists in Abrahmic belief structures with the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit as suggested in the thread linked in post #13.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
This thread is inspired by the discussion in another, and the question posed is primarily geared toward those who have an anthropomorphic view of God (though anyone is free to chime in).

It was postulated in another thread that, like humans, God has a spirit that is the equivalent of Nirguna Brahman (Brahman without qualities) in Hinduism, and God Himself is equivalent to Saguna Brahman (Brahman with qualities). It was suggested that the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost (the being that impregnated the Virgin Mary with Jesus) of the Trinity is God's impersonal aspect, or aspect without qualities.

In your view, does God, like humans, have a spirit?

What are your thoughts?


*Apologies for the misnomer. By 'God' I'm actually meaning the 'Father' aspect of God.

What is a spirit?

To me it is a kind of non-descriptor for not-physical but exists...it is fundamentally a mystery.
 

DanielR

Active Member
Christian Mystic 'Meister Eckhart', my favourite Christian, is similar in his sermons to Advaita. For him the trinity or the Father specifically would correspond to Saguna Brahman and what he calls the Godhead (Gottheit) would be Nirguna Brahman.

He was inspired a lot by Eriugena and Pseudo-Dyonisius, so yes there was always that notion even in Christianity.
 
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