The Social Use of Concealment

[Shadow Wolf]

In short, safety which results from loss of liberty isn't safe
for those who value liberty.

Considering she can be imprisoned and executed for her own rape, this "safety" is by no means safe. "Safety" under coercion of law and threat of physical violence is not safety.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

The women in the first photo were living in a much more progressively liberal society that didn't apply Islamic laws to the extent they are now. In America, for example, many Christians want Biblically-based legislation. However, they don't tend to vouch for executing witches and homosexuals, something they are correct to assert the Bible supports. Just as the Bible does not condemn slavery, but condones, supports, affirms, and validates slavery with an extra demand for slaves to serve well. Most Christians today aren't like that, but the problem is indeed Biblical.

The problem is literalist fundamentalism. Not Christianity per se, not Islam, per se.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Considering she can be imprisoned and executed for her own rape, this "safety" is by no means safe. "Safety" under coercion of law and threat of physical violence is not safety.

Considering there are American politicians putting legislation that will result in precisely this forward...

 

[Revoltingest]

Considering there are American politicians putting legislation that will result in precisely this forward...

The difference is that here that sentiment is rare & doomed to failure.

 

[Revoltingest]

That a woman must be covered up, that she must be escorted outside by a male family member, or else she might get beaten?

That's what some Aussies think happens in Ameristan.
I don't thin they quite really believe it....but it's fun to believe.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Considering there are American politicians putting legislation that will result in precisely this forward...

Sure. But here it's rare and they don't get much support when they are that ultra conservative or extreme. But they are correct that their religion does support such views.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The problem is literalist fundamentalism. Not Christianity per se, not Islam, per se.

Where do you think the literalist fundamentalism comes from? It isn't Scientology or astronomy.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Sure. But here it's rare and they don't get much support when they are that ultra conservative or extreme. But they are correct that their religion does support such views.

That is an interpretation of their religion there are others as well.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Where do you think the literalist fundamentalism comes from? It isn't Scientology or astronomy.

That's an interesting question, and there are many who will argue that fundamentalism can occur outside of religion. Fundamentalism is the problem, not religion.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Fundamentalism is the problem, not religion.

It's more direct than that when the religion specifically states to kill them and their blood is on their hands. Fundamentalism is bad, but we can't blame fundamentalism entirely when the god of the religion said "they angered me, thus they must die."

 

[icehorse]

What really ****s me about all the sanctimonious Muslim bashing is that the cultures you're happily pouring your scorn upon from atop your so high a-horse are pretty much identical to our own culture when we existed at those economic development levels. IMHO Islam is no more inherently misogynistic than Christianity or Judaism.

I'm happy to grant you that. So what? It's 2019.

But there's nothing inherently wrong with it, per se. Demonising its believers for stuff that isn't actually anything to do with their religion, while condemning the cultural practices of Muslims with double standards and otherising is only going to cause problems.

I disagree. This is an ideology that walks in the door "otherising". Islam teaches Muslim men that they are the best of all people. Via the Quran and the Hadith, they are taught to despise non-Muslims. make their women 2nd class citizens, and promote anti-semitism, homophobia, and theocracy.

You say that my maps don't prove anything, but let's look at FGM. We often hear that this atrocity did not originate with Islam, but again I say "Who cares?". Because regardless of its origins, Muslim men sure seem to be fond of it. Argh.

Look, 40 years ago or so, in the US we decided to "demonize" cigarettes. And we had some success with that. To criticize Islam is to criticize IDEAS. I think that anyone who conflates Muslims with Islam in this regard is guilty of soft bigotry. I prefer to think that Muslims can put on their big boy clothes and rethink the horrendous, outdated ideas in their ideology and reform it.