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The Smear Campaigns against the Occupy Wall Street Movement

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work in progress

Well-Known Member
I totally agree, over-regulation by the gov is part of why we're losing manufacturing. The gov not being able to work together and take the good and bad from both sides of the isle is also a big prob. We absolutely need more manufacturing. I work in a factory building lawn-tractors (riding mowers :))and it provides jobs for average joe's like me as well as techies and all the rest, not to mention the insurance and 401k and other benefits and decent pay. Everyone one needs that! I am very blessed and thankful. I just hope we get our act together before it gets much worse.
You are welcome to endanger your health, workplace safety conditions and other REGULATIONS that corporations are gradually removing, but that will still not bring manufacturing jobs back to America in any significant number until Americans are completely reduced to the Third World working and wage standards that have been forced on desperate nations impoverished largely through disaster capitalism.
 

work in progress

Well-Known Member
These folks cannot find a job when 91 out of a 100 people are employed. They are not the 99% they are the 9%.
I'd like to see what you would have to say if you lost your job! Like they say:"a recession is when your neighbour loses his job; a depression is when you lose your job!"
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
I'd like to see what you would have to say if you lost your job! Like they say:"a recession is when your neighbour loses his job; a depression is when you lose your job!"

I would say get off your butt and find another job like 9 out of 10 other Americans have!

Like I said before, this bunch of protestors are not the 99%. No group in America is. :no:

Personally, it is hard for me to lose my job, I own the company.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
I'd like to see what you would have to say if you lost your job! Like they say:"a recession is when your neighbour loses his job; a depression is when you lose your job!"

I have lost my job many times due to economic recessions. I survived and so will you!

Most times when I looked for new work, I found an even better job than the last one I had.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
I was careful to not say "violent", Alceste. My guess is when they notice that no one is paying them the slightest attention.

I think you mean to say you aren't paying them the slightest attention (in which case, what are you doing in this thread anyway? The cognitive dissonance needed to join a discussion thread only to insist nobody is paying any attention to the topic makes my brain hurt. :p)

Front page, CBC
Occupy Toronto camp gets new eviction notices - Toronto - CBC News

"Top US stories" on CNN
California campus police chief on leave after pepper-spraying - CNN.com

Al Jazeera, Americas
Arrests made at Occupy protests in US cities - Americas - Al Jazeera English

Fox News, top US story
Kiss Controversy at Florida Elementary School - Fox News Video - Fox News :rolleyes:
 

Alceste

Vagabond
But that is just vapid rhetoric, Alceste. They have achieved absolutely nothing in "fighting back against the corrosive power of major banks and multinational corporations over the democratic process". This "movement" has spread, to be sure, but in terms of real numbers, since that initial spread it certainly seems to be shrinking, not growing.

They have raised public awareness of the problem, established shared values, a new democratic paradigm (consensus), and an expansive grassroots networks.

It's early days yet, bud.

In this model of public protest (Ghandi's model) the objective is to demonstrate to a complacent public (that means you) that corrupt entrenched powers maintain their power primarily through state violence rather than democratic legitimacy. The state participates in the process by behaving completely predictably, which facilitates the widespread distribution of police officers arbitrarily beating the crap out of peacefully demonstrating grannies, pretty girls, ex-marines, cripples, etc.

So, I would say the first stage is going quite well.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
Smear Campaigns Fuel Shutdowns of Occupations Across Country | Truthout

It seems that smear campaigns against the Movement are proceeding the eviction of protesters from parks around the nation. What do you make of that?

I think it was because of health issues. That is what I heard- I may be mistaken. I haven't been paying too much attention to the whole thing, particularly after I heard some of the anti-Semitic rants from some of the supporters. I don't really like the Tea Party, too.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
I have lost my job many times due to economic recessions. I survived and so will you!

Most times when I looked for new work, I found an even better job than the last one I had.

When I've looked for work during slow economic times, I generally find a better job, and have more options to choose from. I think during recessions, companies have more of a focus on paying attention to who they hire, so things like knowing how to interview, being professional, speaking articulately, and actually having useful skills and experience, pay off even more.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
I think it was because of health issues. That is what I heard- I may be mistaken. I haven't been paying too much attention to the whole thing, particularly after I heard some of the anti-Semitic rants from some of the supporters. I don't really like the Tea Party, too.

State crack-downs on civil disobedience are never because of "health issues." It isn't "health issues" that are causing the Egyptian military to shoot protesters in Tahrir square either. Every state comes up with some kind of excuse for state violence against peacefully demonstrating civilians, but they all behave exactly the same. All the excuses are different, and yet all the behavior is the same. How can the behavior then follow from the excuse? If safety is the issue, should they not be sending medics and fire marshalls rather than pepper spraying, truncheon-wielding police in full riot gear? If safety is the issue, why are the police forcing open the mouths of student protesters in order to spray pepper spray directly down their throats, causing them to cough blood for days? Seems decidedly out of kilter with a concern for public safety, wouldn't you say? How does clobbering somebody over the head with a truncheon make them safe?

The most reasonable psychoanalytic explanation I've heard for the evictions is that the authoritarian mind simply can not tolerate any public activity that falls outside its ability to control it.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
State crack-downs on civil disobedience are never because of "health issues." It isn't "health issues" that are causing the Egyptian military to shoot protesters in Tahrir square either. Every state comes up with some kind of excuse for state violence against peacefully demonstrating civilians, but they all behave exactly the same. All the excuses are different, and yet all the behavior is the same. How can the behavior then follow from the excuse? If safety is the issue, should they not be sending medics and fire marshalls rather than pepper spraying, truncheon-wielding police in full riot gear? If safety is the issue, why are the police forcing open the mouths of student protesters in order to spray pepper spray directly down their throats, causing them to cough blood for days? Seems decidedly out of kilter with a concern for public safety, wouldn't you say? How does clobbering somebody over the head with a truncheon make them safe?

The most reasonable psychoanalytic explanation I've heard for the evictions is that the authoritarian mind simply can not tolerate any public activity that falls outside its ability to control it.

It could be worse, remember Ohio State?

The thing is, people have a right to free speach and I will be the first to support that.

People have a right to assemble peacefully.

They don't have a right to occupy however.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
It could be worse, remember Ohio State?

The thing is, people have a right to free speach and I will be the first to support that.

People have a right to assemble peacefully.

They don't have a right to occupy however.

If they don't have a right to occupy any physical space, where are they supposed to practice their right to free speech and peaceful assembly?
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
If they don't have a right to occupy any physical space, where are they supposed to practice their right to free speech and peaceful assembly?
Oh they have a right to occupy physical space for hours and even days, but they do not have a right to occupy the same space for weeks and months.
 

javajo

Well-Known Member
Well I'm sure the super committee will fix everything and will save us trillions!
Just make sure you take a bath before you look for a job. :sarcastic
 

Alceste

Vagabond
Oh they have a right to occupy physical space for hours and even days, but they do not have a right to occupy the same space for weeks and months.

Why not? Can free speech and free assembly be considered really "free" if the state can impose restrictions on the duration or geographical location of permitted assembly and speech?

If there is an expiration date on free speech and assembly, why isn't it in the constitution? Why hasn't the government passed laws that make the exact duration of an acceptable public protest clear so that everybody knows when they've crossed the boundary from allowable free assembly into illegal free assembly?
 

Alceste

Vagabond
Oh they have a right to occupy physical space for hours and even days, but they do not have a right to occupy the same space for weeks and months.

One further question on this comment: What do you think would have happened in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and Syria if the protesters had just gathered for a day or two and then gone home?

What happened when people around the world took to the streets by the millions to protest the Iraq war for one day and then went home?
 

work in progress

Well-Known Member
I would say get off your butt and find another job like 9 out of 10 other Americans have!

Like I said before, this bunch of protestors are not the 99%. No group in America is. :no:

Personally, it is hard for me to lose my job, I own the company.
And that's why you think you are bullet-proof! But it all depends just how bad the economy takes a dive. I'm within 7 years of retiring....assuming things are as they are now. What I really expect is that I will have to stay healthy because I foresee the whole fake currency system blowing up before I have a chance to collect my pensions and cash in retirement savings. I don't like surprises, so I'm just not going to assume that it is actually going to be there near the end of this decade!

What is totally toxic with right wing ideologies is this notion that all success and all failure is personal. This selfish, greedy notion of everyone grabbing whatever they can is why we have no social cohesion any more. And a lot of what the Occupy movements are trying to do, is just to rebuild the sense of community that we had in most places 40 or 50 years ago.

I have lost my job many times due to economic recessions. I survived and so will you!

Most times when I looked for new work, I found an even better job than the last one I had.

I haven't been out of a job in over 20 years, and a lot of people would have to lose their jobs first, before I would lose mine. My despair is mostly connected with feeling something equivalent to an endangered species heading towards extinction -- younger people coming up and learning skilled trades, do not have the same prospects to earn a decent living or have the job security that I have enjoyed most of my working life.

Same thing goes looking at the wide angle picture, at being part of the baby boom generation. We have surfed and rode the biggest wave ever produced in history! Sure, we started our years living under the threat of nuclear annihilation...which is still with us actually....but we sure had it good, when it came to enjoying the new technologies that came to us after WWII; the rapidly growing economy (except for a few years in the 70's); even good weather! Which even climate change deniers have to admit is getting scary in recent years. Younger generations are not going to have the same material prospects we've had. Well sure, some will. There's always a lottery winner to talk about, in the midst of a whole bunch of losers! But the majority have an increasingly depleted and dangerous world to look forward to.

Same goes for all of those developing nations who've bought into the American Dream and want their share of the pie. Right now, the environmental destruction, wars and failed states, and rising costs of natural resources are all going to short-circuit the attempts by developing nations in the Third World, to enjoy the life we've had.

And all of our future descendents have a life of deprivation to look forward to, since we have used up so much of this planet's renewable and non-renewable resources in such a short period of time.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
Why not? Can free speech and free assembly be considered really "free" if the state can impose restrictions on the duration or geographical location of permitted assembly and speech?

If there is an expiration date on free speech and assembly, why isn't it in the constitution? Why hasn't the government passed laws that make the exact duration of an acceptable public protest clear so that everybody knows when they've crossed the boundary from allowable free assembly into illegal free assembly?

B.S. Alceste, Should one group have a rally at the Washington Monument and never leave? How would you feel about this if it was the KKK? Could they set up shop at the new MLK monument for months?

They have free speech too!

A rally cannot occupy a space for ever because they infringe upon the rights of others to use the space for other rallies.

A rally should have a beginning and an ending. It could be hours or a whole weekend. In some extreme instances I could see a whole week rally.

Under no circumstance should any group occupy an area for months. That is just crazy and unfair.

I think I will buy a camper and park it somewhere really nice and protest for the rest of my life.....:facepalm:
 

gnomon

Well-Known Member
Why not? Can free speech and free assembly be considered really "free" if the state can impose restrictions on the duration or geographical location of permitted assembly and speech?

If there is an expiration date on free speech and assembly, why isn't it in the constitution? Why hasn't the government passed laws that make the exact duration of an acceptable public protest clear so that everybody knows when they've crossed the boundary from allowable free assembly into illegal free assembly?

Restrictions can be placed on freedom of assembly and freedom of speech. What matters is if it is done rationally.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
B.S. Alceste, Should one group have a rally at the Washington Monument and never leave? How would you feel about this if it was the KKK? Could they set up shop at the new MLK monument for months?

They have free speech too!

A rally cannot occupy a space for ever because they infringe upon the rights of others to use the space for other rallies.

A rally should have a beginning and an ending. It could be hours or a whole weekend. In some extreme instances I could see a whole week rally.

Under no circumstance should any group occupy an area for months. That is just crazy and unfair.

I think I will buy a camper and park it somewhere really nice and protest for the rest of my life.....:facepalm:

You haven't given a reason a public protest shouldn't be permitted to continue for exactly as long as the participants feel is necessary to get their point across, I can't help but notice. Nor did you answer a single one of my questions, which were not rhetorical.

Facepalm: the last resort of the argumentless. :p

FYI, if the KKK wanted to stage a sit-in at the Washington Monument and never leave, I would accept it as an exercise of their constitutionally guaranteed right to free speech and free assembly. (To answer your question, which I will assume was also not rhetorical.)
 
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