The Situation in Egypt

[Sunstone]

Al-Jazeera reports that people showed the gas canisters and shell casings that were being fired on the protesters, they had "U.S. markings" on them. Egyptians were asking the reporters why the U.S. was opposing them.

Every American on this forum should call their Congressional representative and demand that the U.S. stop opposing democracy.

Great idea, Spinks! My Congressman is a damn fool and a traitor to his constituency. But I will email both my Senators this morning. I'm going to mention the tear gas and request that they stop exports of gas to Egypt.

Naturally, my elected reps will listen to me. They always do.:biglaugh:

 

[Alceste]

Al-Jazeera reports that people showed the gas canisters and shell casings that were being fired on the protesters, they had "U.S. markings" on them. Egyptians were asking the reporters why the U.S. was opposing them.

Every American on this forum should call their Congressional representative and demand that the U.S. stop opposing democracy.

Perhaps they don't understand that private firms in the US simply sell weaponry willy-nilly with no regard to the population it might be used on. There's no motive but profit. That's capitalism for you.

 

[Sunstone]

Al-Jazeera reports that people showed the gas canisters and shell casings that were being fired on the protesters, they had "U.S. markings" on them. Egyptians were asking the reporters why the U.S. was opposing them.

Every American on this forum should call their Congressional representative and demand that the U.S. stop opposing democracy.

By the way, Spinks, do you have a link to the Al-Jazeera reports? I'd like to include that in my emails.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

By the way, Spinks, do you have a link to the Al-Jazeera reports? I'd like to include that in my emails.

It was reported in the live streaming Al-Jazeera video you posted. (The reporter had an English accent, short blond hair and was standing in front of a daytime scene of a bridge in Egypt.)

 

[Sunstone]

It was reported in the live streaming Al-Jazeera video you posted. (The reporter had an English accent, short blond hair and was standing in front of a daytime scene of a bridge in Egypt.)

Thanks. OK, Spinks, I need some help here. I'm going to bypass my Congressperson because he's just a jerk off. Instead I'm emailing both Senators. Here's the text so far -- I want your advice on how to improve it:

Dear Senator [name]:

As a supporter of yours, I am deeply concerned to know your position regarding the Egyptian people during this time of crisis in their country.

The news agency, Al-Jazeera English, is reporting that tear gas canisters and shell casings from rounds fired at the Egyptian people during their legitimate protests have “U.S. markings” on them. Moreover, because of those markings, many Egyptians are now asking the reporters why our country is opposing them.

Sir, I believe the wide spread perception, however wrong, that the U.S. is actively oppressing the Egyptian people can do nothing but harm to U.S. interests in Egypt and the region.

Therefore, I adamantly urge you to prevent such a pending disaster by taking action now to impose an emergency ban on the export of tear gas and rubber bullets from the U.S. to Egypt. Both common humanity and U.S. interests demand such action.

I have the pleasure of being your staunch supporter,

[Name]​

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I think it's excellent. If you don't mind, I'm going to steal it and email my Senators.

 

[Sunstone]

I think it's excellent. If you don't mind, I'm going to steal it and email my Senators.

Thanks! Go right ahead. I am going to remove the first reference to "being a supporter of their's. I figure it's enough to refer to my support for them in the closing. Referring to it twice might be over doing it.

 

[England my lionheart]

All this hysteria about the MB is ridiculous. (1) The MB is not the largest opposition group, (2) The MB is not a terrorist organization, they are a conservative Islamic group but that doesn't mean they are terrorists. (3) Israel is one of the strongest military powers in the world and the only nuclear power in the region, and they are backed by the U.S., I don't think a democratic Egypt is going to support war with Israel in the foreseeable future, I think Israel will be just fine.

I wouldn't call it hysteria,the only reason the MB are not the largest opposition group is because they haven't been allowed to,the MB have links to many Terrorist organisations but i wouldn't say they were Terrorists themselves.

The MB are not just a conservative Islamic group,they are a well organised Political party with branches in over 70 Countries and in the words of their leader "we shall continue on the path of Qutbs reforms",now i've read Qutbs reforms and they aren't good by any stretch.

I have this from the MBs site breaking news:


02 :26
MB rejects dictator's speech, vows to continue supporing demonstrations till regime change New
23 :51
Unconfirmed: The dictator will step down, his family fled the country secretly New

23 :22
Unconfirmed: MUBARAK WILL STEP DOWN New

21 :56
Thousands of protestors burn down the dictator's pictures in his home town of Monofyya New

21 :49
Eyewitnesses: Military fire trucks began to put down fires in Central Cairo New

21 :41
al Jazeera: Thousands of Egyptian youth form human shields to protect the Egyptian Museum

21 :37
Egyptian opposition figures urge MB to form units to gaurd public properties


The bit that concerns me is the MB to guard Public properties

 

[Alceste]

Thanks. OK, Spinks, I need some help here. I'm going to bypass my Congressperson because he's just a jerk off. Instead I'm emailing both Senators. Here's the text so far -- I want your advice on how to improve it:

Dear Senator [name]:

As a supporter of yours, I am deeply concerned to know your position regarding the Egyptian people during this time of crisis in their country.

The news agency, Al-Jazeera English, is reporting that tear gas canisters and shell casings from rounds fired at the Egyptian people during their legitimate protests have “U.S. markings” on them. Moreover, because of those markings, many Egyptians are now asking the reporters why our country is opposing them.

Sir, I believe the wide spread perception, however wrong, that the U.S. is actively oppressing the Egyptian people can do nothing but harm to U.S. interests in Egypt and the region.

Therefore, I adamantly urge you to prevent such a pending disaster by taking action now to impose an emergency ban on the export of tear gas and rubber bullets from the U.S. to Egypt. Both common humanity and U.S. interests demand such action.

I have the pleasure of being your staunch supporter,

[Name]​

You're dreaming as long as there's money in arms exports and your country is sustained by nothing but capitalism, but it's a valiant effort all the same.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The strongest opposition party (AKA, the most likely to seize the reins if Mubarak takes a powder) is the al-Ghad party, described on Wikipedia as "a centrist liberal secular political party pressing for widening the scope of political participation and for a peaceful rotation of power."

Sounds terrible!!!

In these situations it is rarely the largest legitimate party that gains power.It is the people who agitate the most.
If Egypt allowed all parties and had not banned so many, who knows which would be the largest. or most dangerous.

 

[Caladan]

It sounds like the Egyptians are following Tunisia's footsteps and they are not about to back down. I am hoping the violence won't escalate, but that seems exactly what is about to him.

I know there are a fair number of Egyptians on RF, so how are you all holding up? Any of you taking part in the protests? Do you feel safe? I decided to leave out news articles in favour of hearing it right from you all.

I was conducting a geophysical survey in an archaeological site north of London a few days ago, the guy who did it with me, is a geologist who was working all across the middle east in the process of trying to find oil for the local governments.
we were joined with a professor of genetics turned archaeologist, we've all travelled and studied Egypt. we all agreed that the Egyptians should stick to the current leadership at all costs, and the fact that they have one of the most stable leaders in the Middle east and the Arab world today, instead of going for desperate and romantic adventures, namely promoting the Muslim Brotherhood for taking the reign, a 'brotherhood' which has been a close allies to the Nazi regime during WWII.

 

[kai]

Yes i applaud the sentiment but lets face it their not going to give back what they already have.(Ref Tear gas cannisters)

and i suspect there's a motive to photographing the cannisters.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

I was conducting a geophysical survey in an archaeological site north of London a few days ago, the guy who did it with me, is a geologist who was working all across the middle east in the process of trying to find oil for the local governments.
we were joined with a professor of genetics turned archaeologist, we've all travelled and studied Egypt. we all agreed that the Egyptians should stick to the current leadership at all costs, and the fact that they have one of the most stable leaders in the Middle east and the Arab world today, instead of going for desperate and romantic adventures, namely promoting the Muslim Brotherhood for taking the reign, a 'brotherhood' which has been a close allies to the Nazi regime during WWII.

YEA Egypt you have one of the best leaders, the most helpful leaders for Israel ; Mubarak means blessings, he's a blessing on us ( Israelites) a disaster on you (( Egyptians)

So plzzzzzz plzzzzzz pleaaaaase keeep him there, we're nothing without his great support for us and his great oppression on Palestinians.

Keep dreaming..

 

[Kathryn]

As a politically active US citizen, I don't know ANY Americans who oppose the Egyptian uprising and the goals of the people. I also watch and read various news sources and haven't run across any condemning the uprising or praising Mubarak from legitimate, mainstream US sources. If someone can provide links otherwise, I will read them with great interest.

In other words, I don't see American citizens opposing democracy in Egypt. I'd like to know if there's any substantial movement in that direction. Everyone I know, including my very conservative husband (yes, we have some spirited discussions in our house!) is supporting the Egyptian people.

Unlike most people on this forum, my husband has spent a lot of time in the Middle East, including in Egypt. He has never been a Mubarak supporter, and he has a lot of sympathy for the Egyptian people. However, he is also concerned about the vacuum that will be created if Mubarak is forced to abdicate (as we hope he is!). Anyone with a grain of common sense would be concerned about anarchy and power grabs - anyone who knows any history, anyway.

 

[Caladan]

Well fatima. if this is what you wish for Egypt for the price of saving Arab honour in the face of taking an experienced and practical advice from an Israeli or a Jewish man, its a very good testament of the unrealistic and impractical methods Arabs or Muslims conduct their politics. if you can believe these guys can do better for Egypt than President Mubarak:

About the Muslim Brotherhood:

Underground links to the Nazis began during the 1930s and were close during the Second World War, involving agitation against the British, espionage and sabotage, as well as support for terrorist activities orchestrated by Haj Amin el-Hussaini in British Mandate Palestine, as a wide range of declassified documents from the British, American and Nazi German governmental archives, as well as from personal accounts and memoirs from that period. Reflecting this connection the Muslim Brotherhood also disseminated Hitler's Mein Kampf and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion widely in Arab translations, helping to deepen and extend already existing hostile views about Jews and democracy in Western societies generally.

'Abd al-Rahman al-Banna, brother of Muslim Brotherhood founder Hasan al-Banna, went to Palestine and established the Muslim Brotherhood there in 1935. A local nationalist, Al-Hajj Amin al-Husseini (see article under Mohammad Amin al-Husayni), eventually appointed by the British as Grand Mufti of Jerusalem in hopes of accommodating him, was the leader of the group in Palestine. Another important leader associated with the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine was 'Izz al-Din al-Qassam, an inspiration to Islamists because he had been the first to lead an armed resistance in the name of Palestine against the British in 1935. Under these leaders, many moderate local Arab leaders were assassinated, including King Abdullah I of Jordan, and, from 1921 on, numerous terrorist attacks were perpetrated against Jews, amongst which was the murder of 67 religious Jews, men, women and children, and wounding of many others, in the 1929 Hebron massacre. Al-Hajj Amin al-Husseini led a general uprising against the British from 1936 to 1939; as a Nazi ally he spent the Second World War in Nazi Germany and advocated for and aided their annihilation of the Jews. In 1945, the group established a branch in Jerusalem, and by 1947 twenty-five more branches had sprung up, in towns such as Jaffa, Lod, Haifa, Nablus, and Tulkarm, which total membership between 12,000 to 20,000.

Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Caladan]

As a politically active US citizen, I don't know ANY Americans who oppose the Egyptian uprising and the goals of the people. I also watch and read various news sources and haven't run across any condemning the uprising or praising Mubarak from legitimate, mainstream US sources. If someone can provide links otherwise, I will read them with great interest.

In other words, I don't see American citizens opposing democracy in Egypt. I'd like to know if there's any substantial movement in that direction. Everyone I know, including my very conservative husband (yes, we have some spirited discussions in our house!) is supporting the Egyptian people.

Unlike most people on this forum, my husband has spent a lot of time in the Middle East, including in Egypt. He has never been a Mubarak supporter, and he has a lot of sympathy for the Egyptian people. However, he is also concerned about the vacuum that will be created if Mubarak is forced to abdicate (as we hope he is!). Anyone with a grain of common sense would be concerned about anarchy and power grabs - anyone who knows any history, anyway.

As someone who has been involved in the politics of the region for the past 30+ years, I can tell you that Mubarak, is one of the most stabilizing leaders on the mid eastern landscape. he has worked very well with your people and government and the Israeli government in order to preserve as stable economy as possible in this highly relevant and important region. he has relentlessly worked to preserve security in Egypt, both inside the borders and the borders themselves.

 

[Kathryn]

As someone who has been involved in the politics of the region for the past 30+ years, I can tell you that Mubarak, is one of the most stabilizing leaders on the mid eastern landscape. he has worked very well with your people and government and the Israeli government in order to preserve as stable economy as possible in this highly relevant and important region. he has relentlessly worked to preserve security in Egypt, both inside the borders and the borders themselves.

Caladan, I am sorry to dissappoint you with my take on this. And I will be the first to admit that I don't know all the pertinent facts of the matter. I can assure you that it's not my intent to be "politically correct" though - I am reading and learning as much as I can about this even as we speak, but based on my admitted limited knowledge on the matter, my gut feeling is to be supportive of any people who want a more democratic form of government.

Politics makes strange bedfellows - and no one knows that quite as well as the United States. Sometimes we regret who we sleep with (heh, don't we all!), but it seemed to make sense at the time, right?

Egypt has been a decent ally in many ways, but I think most Americans have been under the assumption that it was the Egyptian PEOPLE as well as the Egyptian government who have been supportive of, for instance, the Gulf War coalition, the spread of capitalistic ideas and affluence (including the promise of Egypt's gold and natural gas resources), and increased incentives in the private sector to expand businesses.

Maybe we've been wrong - maybe the government's influence in these areas has been in opposition to the will of the people. And in spite of the economic strides, forty percent of Egyptians live in poverty. Why is that? I honestly don't know, but I can assure you that if I were Egyptian, I'd be asking where all that lovely capitalism was going - and who was benefitting.

I am grateful for the support of Egypt's government in this volatile region, but I am also aware that there must be multiple layers of corruption, because considering the vast wealth and resources of that nation, and in spite of the billions of dollars invested by the west into their infrastructure and economy, nearly half the people there continue to live in abject poverty.

Maybe those people hate us. Maybe they hate Israel. Maybe they think we're the bad guys - and if so, I really hate that. I personally want each and every one of them to live in health and prosperity, and I don't think that they have to oppose Israel and the US to do so.

I hope I'm not wrong, but I freely admit that I may be. I support their freedoms and their opportunities to be individually prosperous, but that doesn't mean that I support any regime which may come into power. I am watching this region and these developments with an open mind and I want to learn more.

 

[Willamena]

I just turned off the TV. Happy people, cheering and bouncing around. Something good happened. CNN attributed it to Facebook, idly glorifying the ability to social network to topple governments in Egypt.

I can't watch American news anymore.

 

[Caladan]

Caladan, I am sorry to dissappoint you with my take on this. And I will be the first to admit that I don't know all the pertinent facts of the matter. I can assure you that it's not my intent to be "politically correct" though - I am reading and learning as much as I can about this even as we speak, but based on my admitted limited knowledge on the matter, my gut feeling is to be supportive of any people who want a more democratic form of government.

Politics makes strange bedfellows - and no one knows that quite as well as the United States. Sometimes we regret who we sleep with (heh, don't we all!), but it seemed to make sense at the time, right?

Egypt has been a decent ally in many ways, but I think most Americans have been under the assumption that it was the Egyptian PEOPLE as well as the Egyptian government who have been supportive of, for instance, the Gulf War coalition, the spread of capitalistic ideas and affluence (including the promise of Egypt's gold and natural gas resources), and increased incentives in the private sector to expand businesses.

Maybe we've been wrong - maybe the government's influence in these areas has been in opposition to the will of the people. And in spite of the economic strides, forty percent of Egyptians live in poverty. Why is that? I honestly don't know, but I can assure you that if I were Egyptian, I'd be asking where all that lovely capitalism was going - and who was benefitting.

I am grateful for the support of Egypt's government in this volatile region, but I am also aware that there must be multiple layers of corruption, because considering the vast wealth and resources of that nation, and in spite of the billions of dollars invested by the west into their infrastructure and economy, nearly half the people there continue to live in abject poverty.

Maybe those people hate us. Maybe they hate Israel. Maybe they think we're the bad guys - and if so, I really hate that. I personally want each and every one of them to live in health and prosperity, and I don't think that they have to oppose Israel and the US to do so.

I hope I'm not wrong, but I freely admit that I may be. I support their freedoms and their opportunities to be individually prosperous, but that doesn't mean that I support any regime which may come into power. I am watching this region and these developments with an open mind and I want to learn more.

Oh.. I know where this is going.. let the Jew do all the work again.
well fine. lets do it.

I'll just give you this small equation: Mubarak and his government- worked relentlessly with the American security forces and government as well as the Israelis to handicap organizations which are on the American and global terror list, to save Egyptian, American and other citizens lives.
the Muslim Brotherhood. the guys many Egyptians want to see in power right now instead of Mubarak, are a religiously motivated group, who has historically been allied with the Nazis and fought the Americans, the Brits and the allies, as well as serving a special assistance to the Nazis in the exterminations of the Jews of Europe.

 

[Kathryn]

Oh.. I know where this is going.. let the Jew do all the work again.
well fine. lets do it.

I'll just give you this small equation: Mubarak and his government- worked relentlessly with the American security forces and government as well as the Israelis to handicap organizations which are on the American and global terror list, to save Egyptian, American and other citizens lives.
the Muslim Brotherhood. the guys many Egyptians want to see in power right now instead of Mubarak, are a religiously motivated group, who has historically been allied with the Nazis and fought the Americans, the Brits and the allies, as well as serving a special assistance to the Nazis in the exterminations of the Jews of Europe.

Don't worry, Caladan - I don't expect a Jew to work any harder than I do.

And you certainly don't have to educate me on the pitfalls and errors of the Muslim Brotherhood. I am very well aware of their history and the scope of their influence.

I support the rights of the citizenship of any country to have some say and power when it comes to their government.

Does that mean that I support any regime which comes out of anarchy? Absolutely not.

Since you brought up Hitler, let's take a look at that slice of history. The German people were frustrated and economically devastated, and that's how Hitler grabbed power. It was pretty easy to see early on, that his regime would be a goose step in the wrong direction. But does that mean that prior to his rise to power, I would not have supported the rights of the German people to demand more from their government? Absolutely not.

Just because I am supporting the rights of individuals, doesn't mean that I am turning a blind eye to those who would take advantage of anarchy. In fact, I am very, very concerned about the possibilities of radicalism and power grabs in that region.

I would like for the Egyptian people to realize that Americans in general support their individual rights and their demands for more control and more accountability when it comes to their government.

However, I doubt that they will ever get that message. I expect the media, both here and in their region, to focus on grenades with US markings (as if the American people sent them over there for their government to use against the Egyptian people! PULEASE!), and to stir up hatred toward the US and Israel, when in reality, I suspect that the vast majority of US and Israeli citizens harbor no ill will toward the Egyptian people and would like to see stability, wide spread affluence, and secular freedoms abound in that country.