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The Situation in Egypt
- Thread starter croak
- Start date
fatima_bintu_islam
Active Member
Alceste
Vagabond
"Currently unavailable" apparently.
kai
ragamuffin
Hysteria is rediculous, but concern isnt, They as not the largest opposition group because they have been curtailed by the government. I dont entertain the thought of any war but Hamas is an offshoot of the brotherhood.
n the 2005 parliamentary elections, the Brotherhood's candidates, who had to run as independents due to their illegality as a political party, won 88 seats (20% of the total) to form the largest opposition bloc. The electoral process was marred by many irregularities, including the arrest of hundreds of Brotherhood members. One observer, Jameel Theyabi, writing in an op-ed for Dar Al-Hayat, noted that a December 2006 campus demonstration by Muslim Brotherhood university students that included the "wearing of uniforms, displaying the phrase, 'We Will be Steadfast', and the drills involving martial arts, betray the group's intent to plan for the creation of militia structures, and a return by the group to the era of 'secret cells'....
Muslim Brotherhood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I support democracy and freedom in Egypt whole heartedly. Egypt has been burdened by a crushing unemployment rate and an unstable economy for many years. If I lived there, I'd be burning some tires at this point myself.
I just hope and pray that the current regime is replaced with a secular democracy of some sort.
I just hope and pray that the current regime is replaced with a secular democracy of some sort.
kai
ragamuffin
I have my doubts on that one.
Alceste
Vagabond
I'm interested to see how the upheavals in the Middle East impact the conditions that have led to Islamic extremism. Poverty, alienation from the political process, lack of education, lack of social and economic mobility, etc. The last thing any country wants or needs is a huge population of bored and dissatisfied young men: The well-off, educated ones will inevitably lead the hungry ones to acts of extreme stupidity and violence.
*several choice words currently blanked out by the RF server*
It's working for me now. I'm able to stream it at the moment.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
I personally support secular democracy. However, it's silly to rigorously insist on 100% secularism, as if that is the only measure of a government. The Mubarak regime in Egypt, and Saudi Arabia, and Iraq, and The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, and Pakistan all have governments based entirely, or only partly, on Islamic law. The constitution of Iraq and Afghanistan -- you know, those democracies we are fighting for -- affirm their explicit Islamic character. That does not mean those governments are going to be hostile or aggressive towards anyone, in fact all of those governments are very close U.S. allies.Kathryn said:
The U.S. coalition made enormous sacrifices in order to overthrow a secular dictator in Iraq, and replace him with a democracy whose Islamic character reflects its people. Perhaps an Egyptian democracy would continue the restrictions on freedom of religion that the Mubarak regime has enforced for a long time. Perhaps an Egyptian democracy might be loosely based on Shariah law like The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, whose authority is being defended to the death by American soldiers and by $10 billion annually. Or Egyptian democracy could be as extreme as Saudi Arabia, the closest U.S. ally in the region aside from Israel.
I am astonished that so many Westerners show so little support for democracy, in spite of themselves.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
I am ok with the democratic aspect, Mr. Spinkles, it's just the potential aftermath that I am a bit chilled by. I am not optimistic.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
What are you afraid will happen, realistically, if Egyptians are allowed to have free and open democratic elections? The MB is not even the largest opposition group. And even if they were what do you think they will do, pass Islamic laws, like our allies Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia? Or perhaps they will merely continue the religious restrictions which are already in place under the "secular" dictatorship?
The protesters want better employment, less poverty, less corruption in government. They aren't demanding less secularism.
I was listening to Obama's speech last night. At this point, I'm slightly more optimistic that the US Government will, in the end, back the Egyptian people versus the Egyptian Government than I am pessimistic it will do the opposite.
Yeah, I know: Obama's speeches are 90% lies, etc.,etc. He could easily be publicly telling the world one thing and privately telling Mubarak another. My hunch, though, is that, this time around, Obama both wants to keep Mubarak, and see real reform in Egypt.
I don't think he will get both, though. I think -- unless the US gives him a green light for total oppression of the protesters -- Mubarak has at most three more days in power. That is, the US will effectively back the people by refusing to give Mubarak a green light to clamp down.
But what does anyone else think? What's going to happen now?
Yeah, I know: Obama's speeches are 90% lies, etc.,etc. He could easily be publicly telling the world one thing and privately telling Mubarak another. My hunch, though, is that, this time around, Obama both wants to keep Mubarak, and see real reform in Egypt.
I don't think he will get both, though. I think -- unless the US gives him a green light for total oppression of the protesters -- Mubarak has at most three more days in power. That is, the US will effectively back the people by refusing to give Mubarak a green light to clamp down.
But what does anyone else think? What's going to happen now?
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Alceste
Vagabond
Perhaps the opinion of Mubarak's western supporters is that, at least with Mubarak, we know exactly what to expect, even if that happens to be torture, corruption, political repression and autocratic rule. I accept that if he is ousted we don't know what to expect. We might get another Islamic theocracy, or we might get a secular democracy. Nevertheless, because the movement to oust him is fundamentally democratic (as am I) I'm willing to wait and see.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Al-Jazeera reports that people showed the gas canisters and shell casings that were being fired on the protesters, they had "U.S. markings" on them. Egyptians were asking the reporters why the U.S. was opposing them.
Every American on this forum should call their Congressional representative and demand that the U.S. stop opposing democracy.
Every American on this forum should call their Congressional representative and demand that the U.S. stop opposing democracy.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Notice one of the things reported by Reuters on the first day was that bonds and other investments in the Middle East dropped precipitously due to the protests in Egypt. That's another motive for the U.S. to oppose any swift change.
Remember there's a third option, it could also be an Islamic democracy. Things are not black-and-white, either-or, secular or Islamic, it could be a mix and there's no reason to assume the mixture produced by democracy would be more oppressive than the current secular dictatorship, which also restricts religion.
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Alceste
Vagabond
I think Obama is trying to win brownie points for endorsing civil rights movements in other countries to distract the US population from his vigorous campaign to suppress dissent at home.
For me to take Obama's proclamations of democratic sentiment seriously, he's going to have to back off Bradley Manning and Julian Assange, but quick.