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The Shallow State: "Truth is hard; shallowness is easy."

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by Jayhawker Soule, Oct 17, 2020.

  1. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    The Shallow State is the title of an interesting article by David Rothkopf. He notes:

    The shallow state is in many respects the antithesis of the deep state. The power of the deep state comes from experience, knowledge, relationships, insight, craft, special skills, traditions, and shared values. Together, these purported attributes make nameless bureaucrats into a supergovernment that is accountable to no one. That is a scary prospect. But the nature of bureaucracies, human nature, inertia, checks and balances, and respect for the chain of command makes it seem a bit far-fetched to me. (The bureaucracy will drive Trump, like many presidents, mad, and some within it will challenge him, but that’s not the same thing.)

    The shallow state, on the other hand, is unsettling because not only are the signs of it ever more visible but because its influence is clearly growing. It is made scarier still because it not only actively eschews experience, knowledge, relationships, insight, craft, special skills, tradition, and shared values but because it celebrates its ignorance of and disdain for those things. Donald Trump, champion and avatar of the shallow state, has won power because his supporters are threatened by what they don’t understand, and what they don’t understand is almost everything. Indeed, from evolution to data about our economy to the science of vaccines to the threats we face in the world, they reject vast subjects rooted in fact in order to have reality conform to their worldviews. They don’t dig for truth; they skim the media for anything that makes them feel better about themselves. To many of them, knowledge is not a useful tool but a cunning barrier elites have created to keep power from the average man and woman. The same is true for experience, skills, and know-how. These things require time and work and study and often challenge our systems of belief. Truth is hard; shallowness is easy.​

    It an article worth reading.
     
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  2. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Thanks for the article. He wants to believe that Science can rule from top down and that the progressives and the savvy people can direct the voting public. He's imagining an ideal voting public, something this country has never had. In theory its terrific and makes for an interesting article about some other planet.

    What do you think about Jesse Ventura's views? He says we should all stop voting for either of the blue/red parties, take the country back and force both off of the ballot making all names write-in. He says make parties illegal. Why should we compromise with the Democrats? Why aren't you more of a maverick, and why are you willing to settle for big blue?
     
  3. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
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    Trump and the present Republican party is about as deep state as it gets, they are the swamp.
     
  4. ideogenous_mover

    ideogenous_mover Well-Known Member

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    By 'shallow state' I think he is referring to the 'general culture,' or one prominent part of it, as something that's coming to the fore. This is something that was always there, but lacked the conditions to present itself as something that could bind together that well. Now with no more 'west' to settle, and with the advent of modern technology, narratives will have a greater foundation for development. As to why this strain of culture is this way in the first place, my understanding is that america often represented an escape from the enlightenment for many. The values you had, were ones you traditionally were able to escape with. Presently that seems to be no longer possible, as there is no where left to set up camp, and avoid observation. Instead, we now face a sort of pressure in parallel to that of perhaps 15th century europe. The last frontier becomes human nature once again, though we tried escaping this fate .. In the face of this we must find optimism that evolution will happen
     
    #4 ideogenous_mover, Oct 17, 2020
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  5. Mr Spinkles

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    Thanks, great article.

    It is interesting to note that this article was published in February, 2017. I am reflecting on how obvious Trump’s shallowness and shabbiness were even then.

    Just think of the mountain of examples that have confirmed the author’s conclusions since that time. Unfilled positions. Broken deals with Iran, Paris Climate Accord, North Korea. The wall. The migrant caravan. The children separated at the border. Police brutality. “Good people on both sides”. Trade war. Suppressing climate science. Suppressing the CDC. Pushing fake medicine. Lafayette Square. Threatening Iran with crimes against humanity. Threatening NK with nuclear war. Denying Russian interference. Obstruction of justice. Abusing US foreign policy to get a political rival investigated by Ukraine. Attempting to sabotage our own elections. Inciting unrest in the event he loses the election. Using the WH to promote his family business. Trump charity shutting down for illegality. Trump University shut down for racketeering. Lying about his taxes even after his returns were publicized. Flouting masks and getting his own WH infected. Pardoning a man who went to jail for covering up an investigation into the President. Minimizing intelligence on ongoing foreign election interference and undermining US efforts to address it.

    On ... and on ... and on.

    How many of his allies and advisors have been convicted of a crime? How many of his top advisors have left the WH and spoke out against him?

    It’s breathtaking how much has confirmed all the conclusions in the article.

    Maybe, in 2017, some could have argued that the criticisms of the article were still premature. Maybe they could have said, let him prove himself. But today, under a mountain of examples, they can no longer make that argument.

    Yet, today, 40% of the country stubbornly sticks by him. This reinforces that Donald Trump is as much a symptom as he is a cause of the disease. The article was prescient to point this out.
     
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  6. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    He should run for president 2024. He's basically right. If the Dems and Reps don't win things will change. It won't fix everything, but it would gut corporate influence and send a very clear and powerful populace message "no more." But, unfortunately, we won't even do that during normal times when the stakes are much lower. People complain, but complain is all they do.
     
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  7. Tambourine

    Tambourine Well-Known Member

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    Does he want to make it illegal for everyone who shares political goals to organize in order to campaign and push for laws more effectively? Or does he only want to make it illegal to be a Democrat or a Republican?
     
  8. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Just outlaw political parties. As they are a poison to the the system the Constitution established.
     
  9. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    How shallow? Knee deep! Knee Deep! Knee deep!
     
  10. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    It is absurd. But, then again, consider the source.

    Because any non-compromise leads inexorably to the reelection of a fascist narcissist.

    Because this isn't about me and it isn't a game. Play at being a 'maverick' and refuse to settle if you choose, but such shallow posturing either accomplishes nothing or it demoralizes and kills.
     
  11. Tambourine

    Tambourine Well-Known Member

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    So he prefers informal "totally not a party" parties like the Whigs or the Democrat-Republicans from the good old days of American slaver aristocracy? This would do nothing to empower any alternate political movements, but I guess that wasn't really the point, was it.
     
    #11 Tambourine, Oct 18, 2020
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  12. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Everyone. He suggests limiting parties to being political action committees. As it is the parties currently determine what policies we can vote for.

    A former wresting actor, former Navy seal, former governor and not a doctor of law.

    After defeating that narcissist there still remains the oligarchy and the belief that Republican voters are a basket of deplorable people. Its not a good way forward to view half of the country as evil ******** in need of reeducation. Fascism can easily sneak in that way, too.

    It is a bloody mess. I understand what you're saying, and I haven't decided what to do.
     
  13. Tambourine

    Tambourine Well-Known Member

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    Does he somewhere explain what that means? Because honestly I'm not seeing much of a difference there in practice.
     
  14. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    He has books out, and there is this talk he gives to google in 2011 hosted on youtube. Just look for his name speech to google; but I'm not going to post it in the thread and possibly derail the thread.
     
  15. tytlyf

    tytlyf The Mind Eye

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    You were a Bernie supporter in 2016 and 2020 right?
     
  16. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    That is a distortion (of the shallow maverick variety). Most of us are well awarer that Trump voters are not monolithic. In fact, what Hillary said was:

    "You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up."​

    Her characterization was completely accurate.

    That is, again, a distortion on your part. In my opinion, the basket of deplorables is significantly less that half the country and the task is containment, not reeducation.

    What has the best chance of providing the most relief to that largest number of people.
     
  17. Watchmen

    Watchmen Well-Known Member
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    Any article that starts with the premise “Trump supporters are stupid” isn’t worth reading. It’s a distortion and grossly underestimates many Trump supporters—smart, intelligent people who thoroughly know the issues and have a different view than the left. That they view things differently doesn’t make them shallow. That’s just what the holier-than-thou left would like to believe.
     
  18. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Actually, I love the smart, intelligent conservatives. Their efforts with the Lincoln Project have been outstanding.
     
  19. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Ive been a Bernie supporter for many years before 2016. Though this year no because I realize his chances were significantly smaller and he would likely increase Trump's chances of winning.
    And it wouldnt be easy to find, but my response here to Bernie running as a Dem in 2016 was one of anger. Because Dems and Reps are a toxin.
     
  20. tytlyf

    tytlyf The Mind Eye

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    So you didn't vote for Hillary in 2016? Did you vote?
     
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