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The Secret Rapture

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by TheTruthWillSetUFree, Mar 21, 2006.

  1. No*s

    No*s Captain Obvious

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    Yep. *Hands Nate a glass of wine*
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. angellous_evangellous

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    AE celebrates another chess victory over No*s
     
  3. No*s

    No*s Captain Obvious

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    Thank you YmirGF :)
     
  4. No*s

    No*s Captain Obvious

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    Sadly, not tonight. I'm about to have to get at least a nap before work...I need to stay up later than 8:00 AM tomorrow, so I'll need extra juice.
     
  5. Adstar

    Adstar Active Member

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    :) Hi again guys

    I am happy i have helped some come to a better understanding of the rapture. For those who will not believe i hope you can overcome what you have been taught on the matter. But of course belief in rapture or it's timimg is not central to ones salvation status. If one is ready to die the one is ready for the rapture.

    Here are some more Rapture verses for others to ponder:

    Mark 13:24-27
    “But in those days, after the tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect form the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of Heaven

    Here is a clear Scripture showing that the second coming and the rapture both happen after the tribulation. First you see the words, “after the tribulation”, so you know that it is talking about the period that follows the tribulation. Then you see “the Son of Man coming in the clouds”, which is describing the second coming. “He will send His angels, and gather together His elect” which is the rapture of the saints.


    1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
    “For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.”

    This scripture also makes it clear that the rapture will happen at the second coming of the Messiah Jesus. True Christians who have survived the tribulation will be caught up to meet the arriving Lord Jesus in the air.


    Mark 13:19-20
    “For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be. And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He chose, He shorted the day.

    If the elect are raptured then why are the days shortened? The days will be shortened for our sake because we will be the ones suffering through those days.


    Ezekiel 34
    11 ‘For thus says the Lord GOD: “Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day.

    To be delivered is to be saved from persecution. Not removed before one faces persecution. This scriptures clearly shows that it is the day of the Lord, a cloudy and dark day.


    Daniel 12:7
    “That is shall be a time, times, and half a time; “and when the power of the Holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.”

    Revelation 13:7
    “It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them.”

    Scripture foretells that the Anti-christ will destroy Christians we will not be raptured away to avoid persecution:


    Mark 13:14-20
    "So when you see the "abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not" (let the reader understand), "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let him who is on the housetop not go down into the house, nor enter to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter. For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be. And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days.”

    Why would Jesus warn His followers to flee during the abomination for desolation when none of His followers are here? Why did God find it necessary to warn believers if they won't be going through it at all?

    I hope this will help people who are under the mistaken belief that the rapture is pre-tribulation, We must prepare ourselves for what is to come. i believe we are in the end days, Do not let the violence of this world make your heart grow cold persevere till the end. :hug:


    Matthew 24
    12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.



    All Praise The Ancient Of Days




     
  6. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    do not confuse (COMING) with his presence (PAR-OU-SIA)Jesus’ pa·rou·si´a is not simply a momentary coming followed by a rapid departure but is, rather, a presence covering a period of time is also indicated by his words recorded at Matthew 24:37-39 and Luke 17:26-30. Here "the days of Noah" are compared to "the presence of the Son of man" ("the days of the Son of man," in Luke’s account). Jesus, therefore, does not limit the comparison just to the coming of the Deluge as a final climax during Noah’s days, though he shows that his own "presence" or "days" will see a similar climax. Since "the days of Noah" actually covered a period of years, there is basis for believing that the foretold "presence [or "days"] of the Son of man" would likewise cover a period of some years, being climaxed by the destruction of those not giving heed to the opportunity afforded them to seek deliverance.............................. jesus presence has been with us since 1914 when he came into kingdom power in the heavenly kingdom goverment ,it is invisible to us but its there its all happening right now
    Some, on the basis of texts speaking of Jesus’ being seen "coming in clouds with great power and glory" (Mr 13:26; Re 1:7), conclude that his presence must be a visible one
    seeing can refer to figurative sight, perception with the mind and heart.
    (Isa 44:18; Jer 5:21; Eze 12:2, 3; Mt 13:13-16; Eph 1:17, 18)
    When Jesus ascended into heaven, according to the record, "a cloud caught him up from their vision." (Ac 1:9) The disciples did not see Jesus riding away on a cloud, but rather, the cloud obscured their vision of him. This helps us to understand Jesus’ words concerning his presence: "They will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory," and Revelation’s statement: "He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him." (Lu 21:27; Mt 24:30; Re 1:7) In past cases clouds represented invisible presence; but observers could "see" the meaning with their mental "eyes." In this case the physical occurrences that are visible would cause the one looking to "see" or realize that Christ is invisibly present.—See also Mt 24; Mr 13; Re 14:14.
     
  7. angellous_evangellous

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    The post above is plagarized in total, stolen from http://www.desertcrymagazine.com/Rapture.html. For example, see:

    [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]"Argumant 1: The rapture and the second coming are two totally seperate events. [/FONT]
    [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Mark 13:24-27 - [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]"But in those days after the tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars of the heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. Then they will see the Son of Man comming in the cloudswith great power and glory. And then he will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four wins, from the farthest part of the earth to the farthest part of heaven." [/FONT][/FONT]


    [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Here is a clear scripture showing that the second coming and the rapture both happen after the tribulation. First you see the word, "after the tribulation", so you know that it is talking about the period that follows the tribulation. Then you see "the Son of Man coming in the clouds", which is describing the second coming. "He will send his angels, and gather together His elect" which is the rapture of the saints."[/FONT]


    The rest of the post is available there as well.
     
  8. Adstar

    Adstar Active Member

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    I never sourced my material from that site. It did however source some of my material from a post on another forum. And i recieved permission to use that material. Irrespective of that, The truth comes from the Holy Spirit and No one can claim to own words created with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The Word of God cannot be Stolen it can only be shared.



    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  9. TheTruthWillSetUFree

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    AMEN TO THAT
     
  10. Booko

    Booko Deviled Hen

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    Would it be too much to ask that, if you're going to upload tracts, you at least give some slight reference to where you got them?

    http://www.nisbett.com/library/ir-who_are_the_144000.html
     
  11. Booko

    Booko Deviled Hen

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    Have you seen the first movie of the "Left Behind" series?

    That's *exactly* what happens.

    I've never seen such a bunch of stupid people in my life as the ones who were left behind. They're all going on about "oh gosh! What happened! How can people disappear from a plane! I am sooooo CONFUSED! :confused::help::eek:

    Give me a freakin' break.

    Tim LaHaye must think we're all incapable of comprehending his pov (as opposed to understanding it, but just not accepting it).

    But to get serious, you make a great point. What kind of a test is that, when no one could be stupid enough to fail it?
     
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