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Featured The Second Coming of Christ

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by SalixIncendium, Oct 28, 2018.

  1. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Resident Hermit
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    There have been many over the years who claimed to be the Second Coming of Christ or the reincarnation of Jesus. Below is list of notable ones:

    List of people claimed to be Jesus - Wikipedia

    Do you believe any of these listed or any others not listed are/were genuine?

    If so, why?

    If not, what evidences would you need to believe someone claiming to be the second coming of Jesus?
     
  2. BSM1

    BSM1 Who's a good boy?

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    I'm kind of leaning toward that William Davies because when Jesus returns I'm sure he'd want to live in some place with a name like "Walla Walla"...just sayin'.
     
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  3. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    1. I’d have to believe in Jesus as God and believe in his second coming, neither of which I believe.
    2. He’d have to appear as described in the biblical prophecies: the clouds, accompanied by the heavenly hosts, the astronomical, geological and meteorological events, .
     
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  4. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson
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    Israel was established, in part, to produce the Messiah or Christ. Not the first messiah, but the ultimate messiah. They kept meticulous records in order to legally establish lineage, and only one person who ever lived could make the claim of being the promised Messiah. The scriptures even gave the time in which he would come. He came for one purpose, this purpose fulfilled for all time. When the aforementioned records were destroyed in 70 C.E. there was no longer any record available to establish the messiah, in the case that anyone would have refuted Jesus' claim. Which they did not up to that time. No where in scripture is the notion that there is a second coming supported.

    That's the short version. For more information regarding this subject read on . . .

    His return would be visible but not in the manner in which is often thought. The Bible never indicates that Jesus would return in physical form, but that he would return his attention back to Earth, where he would be in spirit. Jesus' return is often thought to be in the physical form of a man, but scripture never speaks of his return in such a manner.

    In order to establish a contradiction the Skeptic's Annotated Bible (SAB) uses John 14:19 in support that Jesus return would not be visible and parallel accounts given at Matthew 24:30 / Mark 13:26 and Luke 21:27 as well as Revelation 1:7 in support that his return would be visible.

    John 14:19 - Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

    Jesus was telling his disciples that the world would see him no more because he would be put to death, but they would see him again because he would be resurrected and he would resurrect them in spirit upon their deaths. The verse has nothing to do with his return to Earth. Paul later confirms this by saying that, in spirit form no man has seen Jesus and none will, unless they be changed into spirit form. (1 Timothy 6:14-16 / 2 Corinthians 5:14 / 1 Peter 3:18)

    At Matthew 24:30 the Greek word horao is translated "see" but can also mean to discern. A Greek-English Lexicon, by Liddell and Scott, says of horao "metaphorically, of mental sight, discern, perceive." - 1948 edition, pages 1244, 1245. This metaphorical perception can also be confirmed by Paul's use of horao at Romans 1:20 where things are invisible yet perceived.

    Clouds, like those mentioned in the verses given by the SAB are typically used in a symbolic sense to signify the presence of God (Isaiah 63:9 / 1 Kings 8:10-12)

    The SAB then says: "Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus returned invisibly in 1914 without clouds, glory, or being seen by anyone.

    Thanks to the WatchTower Society for pointing out this contradiction. (Reasoning From the Scriptures, p. 313, 342-3)"

    Response: From page 313 of that Watchtower publication it says: "Jesus foretold: "Then they will see the Son of man [Jesus Christ] coming in a cloud with power and great glory." (Luke 21:27 RSV) In no way does this statement or similar ones in other texts contradict what Jesus said as recorded at John 14:19. Consider: At Mount Sinai, what occurred when God 'came to the people in a thick cloud,' as stated at Exodus 19:9 (RSV)? God was invisibly present; the people of Israel saw visible evidence of his presence, but none of them actually saw God with their eyes. So, too, when Jesus said that he would come "in a cloud," he must have meant that he would be invisible to human eyes but that humans would be aware of his presence. They would "see" him with their mental eyes, discerning the fact that he was present."
     
  5. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Member

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    "Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. - Jesus

    "So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.- Jesus​

    You won't miss it. When it begins, ALL the tribes of the earth will mourn when they see the sign of the Son of Man. Even the atheists will KNOW that the God of the Bible has come back.

    "Holy, Holy, is the One,
    Who was and is, and is to come
    In a robe as red as blood,
    He comes forth

    "Ride like lightning in the sky,
    On a war horse he draws nigh,
    The same One we crucified,
    Will come again

     
  6. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    No but that prophecy only happens during the third coming, not the second.
     
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  7. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I saw jesus at the bus stop years ago. He turned around and I was stunned. I told him he look just like jesus. Other than that, the resurrection sounds so far fetched from reality to where the only way to prove there won't be any is for all humans to be extinct. I didn't know some RFians think humans can't go instinct.
     
  8. Salvador

    Salvador Conscious Being

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    In order for a person to prove himself to us to be the second coming of Christ, this person must declare all amputees are healed, and presto, there should then be no more persons with missing limbs.

    Now that'd be pretty convincing evidence this person might likely be the second coming of Christ.

    :cool:
     
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  9. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson
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    Some of the prophets prior to Christ as well as his disciples healed and they weren't Christ.
     
  10. Salvador

    Salvador Conscious Being

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    Name me just one amputee who ever had any of his/her missing limbs fully restored?
     
  11. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson
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    Well, I can't, but it was an unrealistic requirement anyway. Healing the blind, the lame, the diseased, and in a few cases resurrecting the dead will have to suffice.
     
  12. Salvador

    Salvador Conscious Being

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    Why not amputees, what does god have against healing them?
     
  13. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson
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    That's an interesting question. I don't think that there were many in the days of the prophets and disciples of Christ.

    Why not heal them now? Because healing was only a temporary thing for the purpose of demonstrating God's approval, in the case of the Christian disciples, or a benefit of God's Holy Spirit granted in the case of the prophets prior to Christ.

    What about the future? Sure, all amputees who enjoy the benefits of resurrection, and those living in a new paradise on earth will be given new bodies. Amputation will be a thing of the past. That's the short answer. For more information on amputation I offer the following. . .

    On the subject of what the Bible says about amputation, the Skeptic's Annotated Bible (SAB) uses Deuteronomy 25:11-12 (KJV). The SAB says that a woman's hand must be amputated if she touches a man's genitals, but touching isn't what the scripture is suggesting. The KJV suggests she takes the genitals in her hand. In the struggle to defend her own husband she grabs the genitals of the other man in order to crush them.

    It is important to realize that this was a law for the nation of Israel only, and they agreed to the law. (Exodus 24:3 KJV) Breaking the law was an offense against their King and God, a religious offense and lèse-majesté. The Law of Moses was also temporary, until the more perfect law of Jesus, (Galatians 3:19-24 KJV). What this means is that the Law of Moses was applicable to the nation of Israel until Jesus came and from there on, the Law of Moses was a guide. (Romans 7:6 KJV) It was a standard of perfection marking the one who could keep it as perfect, but none could keep it except
    Jesus.

    To commit adultery brought the penalty of death to the ancient Israelite. To a Christian it would bring only a removal from the congregation until they repented. Adultery was still a sin of God, but not applicable to the laws of a nation unless the nation where the adultery was committed had its own laws regarding the matter.

    The skeptic as well as the believer often overlooks this very important fact.

    The nation of Israel was brought about by God for the purpose of demonstrating the law and bringing about the Messiah, who would remove sin and bring about life everlasting for those who would have it. Therefore man's right and ability to procreation was extremely important.


    At Judges 1:4-6 Judah and Simeon clashed with 10,000 troops of the Canaanites Perizzites at Bezek. Adonibezek was a powerful ruler who had previously amputated the big toes and thumbs of 70 pagan kings. It was a practice used by the ancient Athenians so that their foes could row but not handle a sword or spear. The Israelites did to him what he did to others. Toe for toe, thumb for thumb. That is why Adonibezek said; "Just the way I have done God has repaid me."

    At Ezekiel 23:25, Ezekiel 23:34 (KJV) there is a symbolic reference to the amputation of ear, nose and breast which the SAB has taken as being literal. Chapter 23 of Ezekiel deals with the figurative prostitute sisters Oholibah (Jerusalem; the two tribe kingdom of Judah with Jerusalem as capital) and Oholah (Samaria; the ten tribe kingdom of Israel of which Samaria was the capital.) Oholibah means "my tent is in her," since God's temple was in Jerusalem, and Oholah means "her tent."

    Oholah (Israel) had been unfaithful by seeking security in political alliances, leading her to adopt the false worship of her allies. This caused her to defile herself with their dungy idols. She ceased to exist when she was overthrown by the Assyrians in 740 B.C.E.

    Oholibah (Judah) had been even more sinful and suffered devastation at the hands of the Babylonians in 607 B.C.E.

    The ear is sometimes used in the Bible to signify spiritual deafness. (Isaiah 6:10) The nose is often related to anger, in fact the most common Hebrew word for anger is aph which means "nose / nostril" due to the snorting of an angry person. (Proverbs 30:32-33)

    Beating of or tearing out of the breast was a figurative term to denote extreme humiliation, stress and grief. (Isaiah 32:12 / Ezekiel 23:34)

    Matthew 5:29-30; Matthew 18:8-9 and Mark 9:43-47 are of course, figurative. If it were not figurative we would see a great number of people running around without hands and eyes. Jesus indicates the spiritual importance of deadening the hand and eyes in reference to sin. It would be better for a person to remove the offending parts but that isn't literally necessary; all that is needed is to repress the sin those parts would be used for.
     
  14. Salvador

    Salvador Conscious Being

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    There'd probably be plenty of amputees for Christ to heal if he were ever to miraculously reappear on Earth. The healing of all amputees would be one of the most convincing miracles Christ could perform to prove himself as being a god/God. There's been plenty of charlatans who've performed the illusion of healing somebody's disease, but only a truly supernatural power could heal all amputees.
     
    #14 Salvador, Oct 28, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
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  15. Rival

    Rival Noachide Counter-Revolutionary
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    Hey at least the water he turned into wine will be seriously vintage by then.
     
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  16. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    For starters: good evidence of the first coming of Jesus.
     
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  17. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    If you check out the 19th century section of the list you will find the name Bahá’u’lláh. He is the founder of the Baha’i Faith. To meet the criteria he must fulfill the prophecies in the both the Tanakh and New Testament.

    OTOH as a Baha’i, the reason I chose this faith has little if anything to do with prophecy. Instead it is a practical faith that makes sense and has teachings and principles suited to the modern world.
     
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  18. Salvador

    Salvador Conscious Being

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    Are you asking for evidence of historical Jesus, or evidence for the resurrected Christ?

    There's zero evidence for the resurrected Christ, and there's debatable evidence of a historical Jesus.

    Historicity of Jesus - Wikipedia

    The most convincing evidence for me of a historical Jesus is the first century Judean ossuary with the Aramaic inscription of "Ya'akov bar-Yosef akhui diYeshua" (James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus") which could be archeological evidence of Jesus, whom Christianity is largely based upon, likely being in Jerusalem during the First Century.

    James Ossuary - Wikipedia


    [​IMG]
     
    #18 Salvador, Oct 28, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
  19. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Some people might have genuine experiences, and this lead them to profound insights; yet wouldn't put them as Christ without fulfilling certain criteria...
    They should know that John, Paul, and Simon are false as a start; then understand prophecy properly about both the Snare & Curse.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  20. wandering peacefully

    wandering peacefully Active Member

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    Jesus, with all those Jesus''s running about the world should be in a more holy situation than it is now.

    I'm sure most of them and their followers actually believed they were Jesus's. The list gets longer as time goes on it seems. And there are probably thousands more living in various states of delusions who didn't make the list.
     
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