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The Sean Bell Case

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
When the verdict was handed down, was there a thread about it here?
Was the topic beaten to death?
Would anyone care to resume/begin talking about it, especially since it's technically still a current event (a federal investigation is being performed to see if there was some sort of civil rights violation)?

Am I posting this in the right forum?
 

gnomon

Well-Known Member
There was a thread on this somewhere but I haven't seen it in a while.

How about you kickstart the discussion. I honestly don't know enough information about the case to say too much either way. I have read several articles but nothing that comes close to concrete evidence of much.
 

Sonic247

Well-Known Member
I don't know whether the police used execive force or not. But dealing drugs and having your bachelor party at a night club accused of prostitution doesn't put you further from the bullets. Whether they are fired by cops or other dealers. Al Sharpton wants people to pray so he can be seen by men, like the Pharisees. And he should pray that people would stop selling crack before he prays that the police would be less corrupt.
 

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
I don't know whether the police used execive force or not. But dealing drugs and having your bachelor party at a night club accused of prostitution doesn't put you further from the bullets. Whether they are fired by cops or other dealers. Al Sharpton wants people to pray so he can be seen by men, like the Pharisees. And he should pray that people would stop selling crack before he prays that the police would be less corrupt.

It's in slightly poor taste to disparage the pharisees in a thread created by a Jew, but this is a law forum, not a religious one...

I am of the personal opinion that if Sean Bell had turned left, he would still be alive.
 

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
There was a thread on this somewhere but I haven't seen it in a while.

How about you kickstart the discussion. I honestly don't know enough information about the case to say too much either way. I have read several articles but nothing that comes close to concrete evidence of much.

I've read a tremendous lot about the case long before the verdict was decided... I've read various news stories... the entire testimony of the officer who fired 31 bullets... New York Times reports of the testimonies given by Guzman and Benefield... and an article that gives a short summary of the testimonies of every witness, both for the prosecution (of which there were fifty) and the defense (less than 10, if im not mistaken.)

Everything leads me to believe that Detective Isnora was justified in opening fire (he fired 11 shots) because he was certain someone in the car had a gun (though there was no gun, the statement "yo, go get my gun" told him Guzman was going to get a gun. You can't judge a man's intent during the moment using hindsight) and was trying to kill him (Bell tried to run him over... twice.. succeeded in striking him once.)

As for the man who fired 31 shots... he had shown no aggression towards Bell or his passengers, so there was no reason for Bell to crash his Altima into the van driven by Detective Oliver. If you blame it on his being drunk, not being able to stop after trying to run over a guy who was waving a gun in his face, there is no excuse for running into the van a second time. Again, we have a man who was convinced Guzman had a gun (as he was told by the detective who heard "yo, go get my gun")... and knew the intent of the people in the altima was to cause him and his fellow officers harm, as evidenced by the fact that they were run into twice by the Altima. After emptying a clip (15 bullet magazine + 1 in the chamber), he noticed the car was still coming towards him, and it looked like Guzman was about to raise a gun... so he reloaded and kept on shooting. Hearing the other gunshots, thinking they were coming from the Altima, he didn't feel safe even after he emptied a second clip. These 31 shots were fired in only a matter of seconds. And it's not that he was a bad shot, or a poorly trained officer. He had just been in a car that was struck twice, and he was trying to shoot a guy (Guzman... don't let anyone lie to you by saying 50 shots were fired at Bell) through a moving vehicle. Nobody's robocop, and I strongly doubt that anyone else in Oliver's situation would have fired less bullets.

Cooper shot 4 rounds, and was charged with reckless endangerment because of where a bullet wound up when it ricocheted.

Another officer fired 3 rounds. He was not charged.
Another officer fired 1 round. He was not charged.


The testimony of the prosecution was weak, full of inconsistencies, denying previous statements, and fabrications.

Given all that's available to be read, I'm certain that the judge gave the right verdict.

The NYPD may have its fair share of police brutality, excessive force, mishaps, etc...

This was not one of those moments.

Had Guzman not said he was going to get a gun (since there was no gun in the car, it makes sense that he either gave the impression that there was one for the sake of seeming tough in front of the guy Bell was fighting with outside the club, or that he was going to go home to get his gun and return)... Bell would be alive today.

If Bell had not driven into the van a second time, but instead turned left, he would still be alive today.
 

Sonic247

Well-Known Member
Yea that's probably about right as far as I can tell. Even if there was no gun a car can kill someone just as fast. Deadly force should be legal for the cops when it is being used by the suspect first. And there was reason to believe that if the cops didn't intervein there would be a shoot-out anyway. It's terrible he got shot right before his wedding and everything though, the only good that could come out of it is for others to see it and lead safer lives, away from drugs.
 

Sonic247

Well-Known Member
I know but one of the things they were trying to say is that it wasn't in this case because they were shooting at a moving vehicle-
Both Bloomberg and Kelly have also noted that the shooting was possibly in violation of department guidelines prohibiting shooting at a moving vehicle, even if the vehicle is being used as a weapon
but then again that's from the Wikipedia article.
 

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
I know but one of the things they were trying to say is that it wasn't in this case because they were shooting at a moving vehicle- but then again that's from the Wikipedia article.

That's a moronic rule and should be repealed from everywhere it's written.
 

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
Just bringing this back to the front page... another attempt to see if anyone still cares. I know a lot of people on Youtube are still angry about this case... a lot of them are still very ignorant about it too.

Anyone have any questions? Comments? Concerns?
 

LittlePinky82

Well-Known Member
As someone studying criminal justice I followed the case when it was in the news nation wide but I haven't heard anything lately as to what has been happening lately. Does anyone know? I thought it was amazing. To me it doesn't matter what the other person was doing but fifty bullets for that situation was uncalled for personally. They could have gone about other routes first. It's not like he was firing thousands of bullets at them or anything. :(
 

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
As someone studying criminal justice I followed the case when it was in the news nation wide but I haven't heard anything lately as to what has been happening lately. Does anyone know?
Last I heard there are departmental charges filed against them (i don't know how long that takes to investigate) and a federal investigation.

I thought it was amazing. To me it doesn't matter what the other person was doing but fifty bullets for that situation was uncalled for personally.
What would have been a better number?

They could have gone about other routes first.
Continue to let Bell back up and drive forward, killing Isnora and badly injuring, if not killing Oliver and Carey? Hell of another route, wouldn't you say?

It's not like he was firing thousands of bullets at them or anything. :(

Oliver, who fired 31 shots, truly thought the shots coming from officers on the other side of the car were coming from the car itself. This belief backed up by the fact he was told that someone in the car was possibly armed.. .when he saw Guzman lift his arm, Oliver didn't want to give him the chance to raise an arm that most likely (in Oliver's mind) contained a gun that was going to fire back. That's when he reloaded.

Remember... only 4 shots hit bell... and Oliver, the only officer whose bullets hit anyone, wasn't aiming at bell. He was aiming at Guzman.
 
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