1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The Satanic Bible Discussion

Discussion in 'Church of Satan ( Formerly La' started by Vasilisa Jade, Feb 17, 2009.

  1. Vasilisa Jade

    Vasilisa Jade Formerly Saint Tigeress

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,964
    Ratings:
    +298
    I just finished reading The Satanic Bible and I must say, it was a much better read than what I expected. I started to read the pdf a few months ago and the connotation I got was that of an outraged 13 year old ticked off at his parents for forcing their christian ideals upon him, resulting in vacuous ranting. I still think their was a little bit of immaturity in there, but overall I would recommend the book to everyone of any faith. It makes you think, and that is what I look for in a book. Here are some of the quotes I noted and/or that I wanted to chat about:

    Hate your enemies with a whole heart, and if a man smite you on one cheek, SMASH him on the other!; smite him hip and thigh, for self-preservation is the highest law!"
    -page 33 (7)



    I wanted to note this because this ideal is what gave me that first impression I spoke of. The origin of Anton Laveys thoughts most definitely come from a place of anger. This book was inspired by anger and outrage. That is not necessarily a bad thing. I do think it might have something to do with Laveys original ideas becoming warped into these different sects of "psuedosatanism" though. A lot of people only hear what they want to hear and practice lots of pick-n-mixism in the wrong places. This would be the wrong place to pick, and I think that is what happens. People just focus on the violence. The other bad thing about this statement is that it has a blind sense of wrath to it. No ones personal sovereignty is perfect, so no one should deal out wrath rashly as this book encourages. Lavey I believe had more faith in people than what he realized, speaking from an assumption of unblemished personal sovereignty like this.


    "Since mans natural instincts lead him to sin, all men are sinners; and all sinners go to hell. If everyone goes to hell, you will meet all your friends there. Heaven must be populated with some rather strange creatures..."
    -page 47


    That was just funny. That made me laugh out loud. There were quite a few instances of cut and dry humor in the book, which made me appreciate his simple, logical ideas.

    "When a puppy reaches maturity is becomes a dog; when ice melts it's called water; when twelve months have been used up we get a new calendar with the proper chronological name; when "magic" becomes scientific fact we refer to it as medicine, astronomy, etc.When one name is no longer appropriate for a given thing it is only logical to change it to a new one which better fits the subject."
    -page 49

    Do you agree? Is that which is underlined true?

    "Anyone who pretends to be interested in magic or the occult for reasons other than gaining personal power are the worst kinds of hypocrite."
    -page 51


    Agree? I know I agree with that. Another perfect example of the cut and dry ideas I liked.

    "Satanism is the only religion known to man that accepts man as he is, and promotes the rationale of turning a bad thing into a good thing rather than bending over backwards to eliminate the bad thing."
    -page 53


    Do you agree? Does it really turn the bad things into good things? Or is that just another form of self delusion that Lavey tries so hard to avoid? I think it is accepting the bad things as being bad and natural that allows a person to progress, not necessarily trying to turn the bad into good. Maybe I am reading into it too much. I know he is speaking from the way christians view the bad and good...

    Clarification?


    "Satan has certainly been the best friend the church has ever had, as he has kept it in business all these years. The false doctrine of Hell and the Devil has allowed the Protestant and Catholic Churches to flourish for too long. Without the devil to point thier fingers at, religionists of the right hand path would have nothing with which to threaten thier followers."
    -page 55

    Is Satan the best friend the church never had? LOL. He is certainly as integral a figure as Jesus Himself. In some churches almost more so. Would the church be able to stay in business if the Satan figure were removed? What would happen?

    Some clarification on Laveys interpretation and origin of Satan:
    "The semantic meaning of Satan is the "adversary" or "opposition" or the "accuser." The very word "devil" comes from the indian "devi" which means "god." Satan represents opposition to all religions which serve to frustrate and condem man for his natural instincts. He has been given an evil role simply because he represents the carnal, earthly, and mundane aspects of life.
    Satan, the chief devil of the Western world, was originally an angel whose duty it was to report human delinquencies to God. It wasn't until the fourtenth century that he began to be depicted as an evil deity who was part man and part animal, with goat-like horns and hooves. Before Christianity gave him the names of Satan, Lucifer, etc. the carnal side of mans nature was goverend by the god which was then called Dionysus, or Pan, depicted as a satyr or faun, by the Greeks. Pan was originally the "good guy," and symbolized fertility and fecundity.
    Whenever a nation comes under a new form of government, the heroes of the past become the villains of the present. So it is with religion. The earliest christians believed the Pagan deities were devils, and to employ them was to use "black magic." Miraculous heavenly events they termed "white magic"; this was the sole distinction between the two. The old gods did not die, they fell into Hell and became devils.


    "The performance of Satanic rituals does not embrace the calling forth of demons; this practice is followed only by those who are in fear of the very forces they conjure."
    -page 56


    All so interesting. I love how detailed he gets into spotting the guilty conscience and signs of not being severed from old ideas.

    "If you have to fear God, why not be "Satan fearing" and at least have the fun that being God fearing denies you?"
    -page 61

    Mwahahaha! Another quote that was just great. Such a smartass. lol.

    On a serious note though. I don't think any deity worthy of being followed or taught through actually desires worship or fear. Do satanists agree?


    The explanation of the origin of the idea of Hell:
    "The Teutonic Goddess of the Dead and daughter of Loki was named Hel, a pagan god of torture and punishment. Another "L" was added when the books of the Old Testament were formulated. The prophets who wrote the Bible did nto know know the word "Hell;" they used the Hebrew "Sheol" and the Greek Hades, which meant the grave; also the Greek Tartaros, which was the abode of fallen angels, the underworld (inside the earth), and the Gehenna, which was the valley near Jeruselum where Moloch reigned and garbage was dumnped and burned. It is from this that the Christian chirch has evolved the idea of "fire and brimstone" in Hell."
    -page 62
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Vasilisa Jade

    Vasilisa Jade Formerly Saint Tigeress

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,964
    Ratings:
    +298
    Further clarification on Satan:
    "Most Satanists do not accept Satan as an anthropomorphic being with cloven hooves. a barbed tail, and horns. He merely represents a force of nature- the powers of darkness which have been named just that because no religion has taken these forces out of the darkness. Nor has science been able to apply technical terminology to this force. It is an untapped reservoir that few can make use of because they lack the ability to use a tool without having to first break down and label all parts which make it run. It is this incessant need to analyze which prohibits most people from taking advantage of this many faceted key to the unknown-which the Satanist chooses to call "Satan."

    "It has been clearly established that the majority of all illnesses are of a psychoematic nature, and that psychoematic illnesses are a direct result of frustration. It has been said that "he good die young." The good by christian standards do die young. It is the frustration of our natural instincts which leads to the premature deterioration of our minds and bodies."
    -page 83

    What say you? This is pretty bold statement. Is it true scientifically? It makes sense to me.

    "The simple fact of the matter is that the very thing which has led this type of person to a faith which preaches abstinence, is indulgence. Their compulsive masochism is the reason for choosing a religion which not only advocates self-denial, but praises them for it; and gives them a sacroanct avenue of expression for their masochistic needs. The more abuse they can stand, the holier they become.
    Masochism to most people , represents a rejection of indulgence. Satanism points out many meanings behind the meanings, and considers masochism to be an indulgence if any attempt to sway or change the personfrom his masochistic traits is met with resentment and/or failure. The Satanist does not condem these people for giving vent to thier masochistic desires, but he does feel the utmost contempt towards those who cannot be honest enough (at least with theselves) to face and accet thier masochism as a natural part of thier personality makeup.
    Having to use religion as an excuse for their masochism is bad enough, but these people actually have the effrontery to feel superior to those who are not bound-up in self-deceitful expression of their fetishes!"
    -page 84


    Wow what a mouthful. Thoughts? This kind of mind boggled me for a bit. I am still sorting through all the ideas in this book about introspection dealing with hidden guilt and masochism/sadism.

    I don't have time to finish up but I will later.
     
  3. Vasilisa Jade

    Vasilisa Jade Formerly Saint Tigeress

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,964
    Ratings:
    +298
    Don't you love it when you wrap up something you're working on in a hurry to go meet someone, grab all your things to run out the door, just for them to tell you as you're getting in your car, "Nevermind.... blah blah blah."
    :areyoucra

    Anyway, this part of the book I found interesting:

    To the Satanist, martydom and non-personalized heroism is to be asociated not with integrity, but with stupidity. This, of course does not apply in situations which involve the safety of a loved one. But to give one's own life for something as impersonal as a political or religious issue is th eultimate masochism.
    Life is the one great indulgence; death the one great abstenince.
    -page 92

    Self-sacrifice is not encouraged by the Satanic religion. Therefore, unless death comes as an indulgence because of extreme circumstances which make the termination of life a welcome relief from an unendurable earthly existance, suicide is frowned upon by the satanic religion.
    Religious martyrs have taken thier own lives, not because life was intolerable for them, but to use thier supreme sacrifice as a tool to further the religious belief. We must assume then, that suicide, if done for the sake of the church, is condoned and even encouraged-even though thier scriptures label it a sin-because religious martyrs of the past have always been deified.
    It is a rather curious that the only time suicide is considered sinful by other religions is when it comes as an indulgence.
    -page 95


    I found that very interesting. There was a thread a while back talking about, if you and your family were taken hostage or whatever, and given the choice to denounce your beliefs or die, which would you choose? So many people said they would die. And for what? The other, crazier people don't care. It would result in nothing but your children being raised by your captors and taught all their radical ideas without you being there to correct it secretly.

    "Magic is never totally scientifically explainable, but science has always been, at one time or another, considered magic."
    -page110

    Really?! Is this correct?

    I hope this stimulates discussion, and for those who are afraid or embarrassed to buy and read this book out of curiosity, give you a feel of the book and show that touching it will not send you directly to hell, and it isn't evil like it seems. If you just called it "Thinking-Outside-The-Boxism," and slapped that on the cover instead and in place of Satan, most wouldn't consider it evil.
     
  4. GabrielWithoutWings

    GabrielWithoutWings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Messages:
    1,407
    Ratings:
    +147
    I think the book should be required reading, to be honest. I would guess a majority of people would never even touch it out of fear.

    I don't necessarily think it should be followed to the letter. I'd put it next to my Nietzsche, Paine, Franklin, and Twain.
     
  5. Vasilisa Jade

    Vasilisa Jade Formerly Saint Tigeress

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,964
    Ratings:
    +298
    Agreed. That's why I posted all this. I was hoping that it might tweak some peoples interest. It definitely shouldn't be followed to the letter, but Laveys point of view and ideas are something anyone of any faith could pull knowledge from of some sort.
     
  6. Vasilisa Jade

    Vasilisa Jade Formerly Saint Tigeress

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,964
    Ratings:
    +298
    Nobody wants to talk about the Satanic Bible with me :sad4:

    I'm sure a ton of people have started to, and then they realized, "Ah crap this is a dir. Can't say what I wanna. Dang."

    Yeah I did that on purpose :D

    But i want people to discuss the book with me so I might copy and paste it elsewhere in a general discussion place, maybe a debate place.... maybe.... mwahahaha. Maybe. Probably not.
     
  7. Yes Man

    Yes Man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2005
    Messages:
    4,009
    Ratings:
    +163
    Religion:
    I dunno
    I think that goes with the world we live in today. We value science pretty highly to give us answers but obviously it can't answer every question right now. Which is not necessarily bad. Look at how popular string theory is today. It doesn't necessarily have a lot of evidence supporting it but there have been many, many discussions about it in the scientific community.
    Probably. How much power one wants might be a different matter.
    I think it's good that you're examining the text so thoroughly. I think it's good that people generally have a more natural outlook and/or self-confidence. (If that's what LaVey meant, if not, ignore the above)

    I think the idea that THE SATAN endorses LaVey's ideas is what attracts a lot of people to Satanism. Going out of business though? I don't know about that. Again, I think that Satan's "stamp of approval" so to speak is what interests a lot of people.
    Honestly, I have no idea what ALL Satanists think. If you want my perpective, I would completely agree with you. :D
     
    #7 Yes Man, Feb 18, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2009
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Azakel

    Azakel Liebe ist für alle da

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    5,401
    Ratings:
    +507
    I have a copy and have read it. I also think that everyone should read it, it would help a lot of people to have a understanding of what Satanism is....or at lest Laveyan Satanism.
     
  9. blackout

    blackout Violet.

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2007
    Messages:
    16,125
    Ratings:
    +2,520
    Quote:
    "Anyone who pretends to be interested in magic or the occult for reasons other than gaining personal power are the worst kinds of hypocrite."
    -page 51

    Agree? I know I agree with that. Another perfect example of the cut and dry ideas I liked.

    WEll... and it's not like personal power/empowerment is a BAD thing. no? :shrug:

    Honestly everyone wants to live empowered.
    Anyone who says they don't is either fibbing or dead.
     
  10. blackout

    blackout Violet.

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2007
    Messages:
    16,125
    Ratings:
    +2,520
    Self-sacrifice is not encouraged by the Satanic religion. Therefore, unless death comes as an indulgence because of extreme circumstances which make the termination of life a welcome relief from an unendurable earthly existance, suicide is frowned upon by the satanic religion.
    Religious martyrs have taken thier own lives, not because life was intolerable for them, but to use thier supreme sacrifice as a tool to further the religious belief. We must assume then, that suicide, if done for the sake of the church, is condoned and even encouraged-even though thier scriptures label it a sin-because religious martyrs of the past have always been deified.
    It is a rather curious that the only time suicide is considered sinful by other religions is when it comes as an indulgence.
    -page 95

    true true true, lovely tigeress.

    and besides... occultists know the art of double speak.;)
    christians and good citizens are taught never to lie.
    but to whose benefit?:areyoucra

    The finer art of "picture painting"/"interpretive dance"
    ie "lying" can be most beneficial and even fun.:D

    Face it. Everyone doesn't 'get'.... or deserve the truth.
    You think a maniacle captor DESERVES the truth?
    ~not~

    Better to stay in the game.

    I also agree that if life is completely unbearable...
    or some worser fate awaits you...
    there is no reason a person shouldn't be allowed to lay down their carbon based life suit,
    and WITHOUT condemnation.

    Guess I agree with Lavey then.

    OH... and GREAT THREAD!
     
    #10 blackout, Feb 18, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2009
    • Like Like x 1
  11. darkendless

    darkendless Guardian of Asgaard

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2008
    Messages:
    6,368
    Ratings:
    +1,024
    My favourite quote from the book. What is with all this forgiveness in the world? If someone betrays you why is it a good thing to forgive? What does that teach anyone, forgiving and forgetting is ignoring perfectly normal human flaws. Forgiveness is weakness of the highest order, the ability to forget is a failure on our part to teach someone a lesson. People talk of second chances a lot, if they need a second chance they don't deserve a first. Sure we live life with a chip on our shoulder but burying the fact that you've been F***ed over isn't going to change a thing, and putting on a fascade and pretending everything is ok is unhealthy.

    Why should we die as martyrs for someone else? Why does their life mean more than ours? If humans are all equal why does dying matter? All it proves is that you're dead and the person you saved is not.
     
  12. GabrielWithoutWings

    GabrielWithoutWings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Messages:
    1,407
    Ratings:
    +147
    I'm kind of partial to this one.
     
  13. Darkness

    Darkness Psychoanalyst/Marxist

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2006
    Messages:
    3,806
    Ratings:
    +409
    1 Corinthians 3:2
    I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
    I know it is blasphemy to quote the New Testament, but what the Hell. The Satanic Bible provides beginners with a platform, but once that base has been established and the anger and hatred has subsided, it is time to move onto meat. Much of the Satanic Bible is semantic arguments (e.g. that weird fixation on trying to get one over on Catholics via the Seven Sins).

    The Satanic lack of forgiveness is what alienates me most. Forgiveness is a beautiful thing, when used in the proper way. When you are like the Amish and forgive someone who has not asked for it, then you are a fool. But when you forgive someone who is truly sorry, you open up new vistas. A good example of this is in Shakespeare's the Tempest. The Sorcerer Prospero crushes his enemies to their knees and then offers them a hand up and, thus, forges a powerful alliance between two kingdoms.

    The main adversity I have with Satanism is that I believe we can become something more than just bestial animals. Animals may butcher each other and murder for mating rites, but we can overcome all of this.
     
  14. Vasilisa Jade

    Vasilisa Jade Formerly Saint Tigeress

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,964
    Ratings:
    +298
    Heh. I actually kind of liked the reasoning behind making the seven deadly sins a good thing. But yeah, lots of anger. The book was inspired through the authors anger.

    Which is why I have been looking closely at The Temple of Set. The ToS still has a history with the CoS though. Which is why I wanted to read this too.

    I see the potential for it to have the same literalist problem as other religious texts. Then of course the pick-n-mixism focus in the wrong places.
     
  15. Darkness

    Darkness Psychoanalyst/Marxist

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2006
    Messages:
    3,806
    Ratings:
    +409
    It is not the fact of making the seven sins a good thing, that I have a problem with. It is the blatant distortion of the original meaning of the sins.

    I have heard many bad things about the Temple of Set from other Left-hand Pathists. Basically, they tend to be elitist.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. darkendless

    darkendless Guardian of Asgaard

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2008
    Messages:
    6,368
    Ratings:
    +1,024
    Each to their own, i dont think a second chance is the right thing to do. If people were truelly sorry, they would have realised that they shouldn't have done it in the first place. Humans are doomed to repeat history because we give too many chances. Something satanism has helped me with is to make sure people know where they stand, and to make people aware of the consequences of their actions. I don't believe in truelly sorry. I call that regret, regret for a mistake that shouldn't have happened in the first place.

    Satanism teaches us that we are no different than animals, just more advanced along the line. They're right, we're foolish to supress our animal instincts like Christianity would have us do. For what? to make us easier to control. That is why we do not follow their BS, we're not sheep who follow a flock. We are not better than any other animal. I hate the elitest attaitude that somehow humans are more important than everything else.
     
  17. GabrielWithoutWings

    GabrielWithoutWings Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Messages:
    1,407
    Ratings:
    +147
    If a person keeps the Satanic sins in mind, then there is a concept of forgiveness, especially if doing so would be overly beneficial.

    [FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] [/FONT]
     
  18. Vasilisa Jade

    Vasilisa Jade Formerly Saint Tigeress

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,964
    Ratings:
    +298
    That quote seems like it is isn't talking about the act of forgiving another, but asking another for forgiveness when it is beneficial to you.

    Also, forgiving when it is only beneficial to you, wouldn't really be forgiving would it? It is more like, a self-centered strategic course of action, or something. The person isn't forgiven. lol. The mock-forgiveness is means to whatever end you are looking for. Right?
     
  19. Vasilisa Jade

    Vasilisa Jade Formerly Saint Tigeress

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2007
    Messages:
    1,964
    Ratings:
    +298
    I agree. It is a blatant distortion of the christian meaning of the sins. But when reading you have to keep in mind that LaVey saw the Sins as a blatant distortion of mans natural instincts. It is like the flip side of the coin, which kind of makes both sides seem extreme.

    I will keep an eye out for that. Thanks for the heads up. :D

    Well humans are not more important, we're just more advanced which is in of itself elite. We are elite in more ways than any other animal whether we like it or not unfortunately. It doesn't mean you have to act it and exploit it of course.

    Do Satanists feel elite to the "sheep?" I think in more ways than one they do........;)
     
  20. GiantHouseKey

    GiantHouseKey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    1,034
    Ratings:
    +71
    All religions are elitist, just in different ways. Because setianism is elitist in a way that we can all fully understand it just seems to be worse.

    I guess by calling them sheep it implies elitism. Personally, I feel as though human lives are equal, just mine is more important to me. I would never do anything unconsentually harmful to another. Saying that, I think that people that blindly follow because they have been told that is the case without any grounding are only fooling themselves. Im not bothered what people believe, as long as their happy believing it there is no problem. Ignorance is bliss, so they say. If people want to waste their life believing something that will ensure they waste half their lives it's fine by me.

    I wish I had noticed this thread sooner. It's not everyday I get to talk about Satanism.

    GhK.
     
Loading...