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"The Saints Will Judge the World"

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by jonny, Dec 20, 2005.

  1. jonny

    jonny Well-Known Member

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    In another thread, TheGreaterGame claimed that these verses in the Bible implied that the Evangelical Christians would be co-judges with Christ at the final judgement.

    Here are the scriptures:

    Revelation 20 1-10
    1 AND I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

    2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

    3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

    8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

    9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

    10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

    1 Corinthian 6
    1 DARE any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

    2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

    3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

    4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

    5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

    6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.

    7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

    8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

    9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

    10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

    11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

    12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

    13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

    14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

    15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

    16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

    17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

    18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

    19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

    20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.


    What do you think it means that the saints will judge the world. First off, I don't think that the term "Saints" necessarily applies only to Evangelical Christians. Second, I don't believe that judging the world is the same as making the final judgment for a soul.

    I have my own beliefs on what "saints judging the world" means, but I'd like to hear what other Christians believe first. Do these scriptures give Christians the right to tell people they are going to heaven or hell? If so, what is the purpose of standing before the "judgement seat of Christ" (Rom 14:10), and doesn't this contradict what the bible says in John 5:22 when it says that the Father "hath commited all judgement to the Son."

    I guess my bible is missing the * next to the word "all."
     
  2. TheGreaterGame

    TheGreaterGame Active Member

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    I think this could be a thread in and of itself . . . what is the criteria for an Evangelical Christian in its historical context and contemporary elements.
     
  3. jonny

    jonny Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going to define who belongs in a religious group that I don't belong to. Let the Evangelical Christians on the board decide who belongs with this group. You seem to be one, so you tell me...or start another thread on it.
     
  4. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

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    Saints are all those that have been bought by the blood of Jesus Christ's sacrifice. They have been sanctified by his atonement. We would not be saints if it were not for Christ's sacrifice. The saints who judge the world are all those that accept Jesus Christ's sacrifice and have been sanctified and cleansed from all sin. This would include all Christian churches and members who fall into this catagory. Not just Mormons or Evangelicals. The Baptists, Catholics, Messianic Jews, etc. will all be judges of the world.
     
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  5. jonny

    jonny Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, but that's not really what I wanted to debate. What does the phrase "judges of the world" mean? It certainly doesn't refer to the final judgment.
     
  6. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

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    When Christ returns to earth, the earth will be terrestrialized. All those that do not abide a terrestrial law must leave this earth. In order to abide a terrestrial law one must believe in Jesus Christ and accept his sacrifice. All others are considered "of the world". The "world" are those people who do not accept Jesus Christ as their Savior. Christians are considered "saints" because they have been bought with a price and sanctified from all sin by the blood of Jesus Christ. The "world" does not believe this. This is why we must be "judges of the world". We the "saints" will be judges of the "world" or those that do not believe in Jesus Christ. We must judge who is worthy to live here during the Millenium (the next 1000 years) when Christ will rule and reign on the earth once again. Keep in mind that the "world" does not want to be ruled by a person that they do not consider their Savior or leader. This judgement of the "world" is not the final judgement for the "saints". This is a final judgement for the "world" but not for the "saints". The final judgement, will happen at the end of the Millenium when Satan will be loosed for a "little season", and then the end cometh, when the earth will be Celestialized and all those that do not abide a Celestial law must leave the earth. All those that abide a Celestial law, wherein they accept Jesus Christ and the Father and the fullness of the gospel, will be judges over those that do not accept this. We will be judges over those that accept Jesus Christ and his sacrifice but do not accept the Father and the fullness of the gospel.
     
  7. jonny

    jonny Well-Known Member

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    Would you mind quoting some scriptures to back up all your claims?
     
  8. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    I don't have time to dig up the references, but the Gospel Priniciples Sunday School manual says some who do not accept Christ will live during the Millenium.
     
  9. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

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    Those that would have accepted Jesus Christ as their savior, had they been given the chance.
     
  10. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

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    Regretfully, I shall not be able to attend the Final Judgment. I have the weekend booked and it could be ages before I can re-book. Anywho, don't stop the festivities on account of me. I'm sure I will read all about it after. Have a blast and say "Hi" to JC and the Boss. I'll be thinking of ya.

    My standard question to this problem is always. How long is long enough?
    How long will it take before we put these delightful visions of our future aside? 100 years? 434 Years? 10,000 years? With every day that passes, the event is less likely to occur. When does it finally wind down to irrelevancy and become a nightmare in our past?
     
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  11. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

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    John 5:4-5

    4- For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

    5- Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the son of God.

    The gospel is very simple, we make it hard.

    Outer Darkness - Deny the Holy Ghost
    Telestial world - Accept the Holy Ghost
    Terrestrial world - Accept Jesus Christ
    Celestial world - Accept the Father and the fullness of the gospel, which includes all of His principles and ordinances.

    What more do we need to know. We know all of the saving principles and ordinances of the gospel. We study Jesus Christ's example of the Father and live His principles and perform his ordinances for ourselves and our dead. The gospel is simple. We just need to live it.

    Bruce R. McConkie in his book "Mormon Doctrine" said that if we have entered into the "everlasting covenant of marriage" in His holy temple, that we will all be saved in the Celestial kingdom, as long as we do not commit murder which is to "deny the Holy Ghost". in which there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come. There is hope for all to be saved in the Celestial kingdom. It is only a matter of acceptance. Acceptance is the key. We must accept all of the Fathers principles and ordinances in order to be saved in the Celestial kingdom.

    Those who are worthy of a Terrestrial reward are those that accept Jesus Christ but not all of his principles and ordinances of His gospel. It is very simple.

    Of course we can refer to the Doctrine and Covenants if we want more specific answers as to who will be in which kingdom. I prefer to simplify things and then get into specifics.

    Sin is all overcome by the blood of Jesus Christ. When we accept Him we are atoned for. Are sins are washed clean. There will be millions of such "saints" during the Millenium (thousand year reign of Jesus Christ). We will also preach the gospel to those that did not have a chance to hear it and accept it.
     
  12. jonny

    jonny Well-Known Member

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    I'm looking for scriptures to back up these claims. Where does it state in the scriptures that the saints will be the judge of who does and does not believe in Christ?
     
  13. Radar

    Radar Active Member

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    Great Post:clap
     
  14. angellous_evangellous

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    Jonny,

    Such a great OP. Frubals on your head.

    I agree that there is a difference between the final judgement and whatever judging that Christians will do with Christ. I don't know what it means. I have always understood the rule of Jesus as God to be absolute, and "ruling with him" in Christian rhetoric and hymns is perhaps a democratic projection onto the Scriptures.

    However, the Eastern Orthodox Church and some other Christians adobt the idea of theosis (I hope that is the right word), which means that humans will at some point become gods. I don't understand, however, what will be left for the "saints" to "judge" if everything has been perfected.
     
  15. jeffrey

    jeffrey †ßig Dog†

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    bumping back to the top so it will be easy to find. ;)
     
  16. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

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    1 Corinthians 6: 2

    "Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?"

    Alma 5: 48

    "....Jesus Christ shall come, yea, the Son, the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace, and mercy, and truth. And behold it is he that cometh to take away the sins of the world, yea, the sins of every man who steadfastly believeth on his name."

    Either 3: 14

    "Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name, and they shall become my sons and my daughters."

    The saints are all those who steadfastly believeth on his name.
    The world are all those who are not redeemed from their sins, because they do not believe on his name.

    The saints, or those who steadfastly believeth on his name, will judge the world, or those who do not believe on his name."
     
  17. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

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    Doctrine and Covenants 35: 2

    "I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who was crucified for the sins of the world, even as many as will believe on my name, that they may become the sons of God, even one in me as I am one in the Father, as the Father is one in me, that we may be one."
     
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