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The Sabbath is the 'Lords Day', not Sunday.

Discussion in 'Seventh-day Adventist Church DIR' started by reddogs, Mar 30, 2019.

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  1. reddogs

    reddogs Active Member

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    The Sabbath on the seventh day is the 'Lords Day' from creation, not the first day or the six days leading up to it.

    Exodus 20:8-11
    8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

    It is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God, not Moses' sabbath, or the Jews sabbath, or anyone else's sabbath.

    Leviticus 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

    We see the same.

    Deuteronomy 5:12-13
    12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee. 13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work: 14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ***, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

    Again the same.

    Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

    It was not 'Moses' sabbath.

    Leviticus 19:1-2
    1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the LORD your God am holy. 3 Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my sabbaths: I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:30 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

    Leviticus 26:2 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

    Isaiah 56:4-6
    4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; 5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

    Ezekiel 20:12-13
    12Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them. 13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

    Ezekiel 20:16 Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, but polluted my sabbaths: for their heart went after their idols.

    Ezek 20:19-24
    19I am the LORD your God; walk in my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them;
    20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God. 21 Notwithstanding the children rebelled against me: they walked not in my statutes, neither kept my judgments to do them, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; they polluted my sabbaths: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them, to accomplish my anger against them in the wilderness. 22 Nevertheless I withdrew mine hand, and wrought for my name's sake, that it should not be polluted in the sight of the heathen, in whose sight I brought them forth. 23 I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries; 24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.

    Ezekiel 22:8 Thou hast despised mine holy things, and hast profaned my sabbaths.

    Ezekiel 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.

    Ezekiel 23:38 Moreover this they have done unto me: they have defiled my sanctuary in the same day, and have profaned my sabbaths.

    The Lord claims the sabbath as His very own. It is a day, therefore it is literally, the Lord's day. This clear so how many times must the Lord call the sabbath His day to understand that there is only one day in the scriptures that would be referred to as the Lord's day? Other than the seventh day sabbath, the Lord's day can also refer to the day on which He will return to this earth. That is all. Sunday, or the first day of the week is never referred to as the Lord's day in the scriptures.

    This title was only applied to Sunday later on, to cover their deception. It was applied by those who began the apostasy and abomination away from the worship of the early church which Christ and the apostles began, by men who say it comes from their authority and 'tradition'.
     
  2. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    However the only named day that communion was taken in Acts was Sunday, collection was taken on Sunday in Corinthians, Jesus appeared to the apples alive on Sunday... and for like reasons Christians (for the most part) meeting on Sunday and take that as the Lords day

    The ultimate Sabbath however is glorifying God be resting in Christ's work on the cross

    I am fine with respecting people's conscience as far as this is concerned and there is some warrant for that in Romans
    Romans 14:5 One man regards a certain day above the others, while others take other days alike...

    There is also a statement in Colossians not to let anyone be your judge regarding the Sabbath these are like a shadow but the one casting the shadow is Christ so things should be in proper perspective

    However, I do notice by title Psalm 24 is the Psalm to be read on the first day of the week (aka Sunday) which emphasizes the Cross the Crook and the Crown psalms pointing to Jesus
    Happy Easter Sunday!!
    The Super Epic Psalms - How the Longest Psalms Point to Jesus
     
    #2 whirlingmerc, Mar 30, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
  3. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    All those scriptures you have listed are conclusive that the Sabbath is the seventh day. They are also conclusive that the Sabbath on the seventh day is a special sign of the covenant between God of Israel and the Jewish people of nation of Israel....not for the Body of Christ, the church. A lot of confusion and misunderstanding occurs when the scriptures are not rightly divided.

    What is the Sabbath day?


    Question: Why do we celebrate Sunday as the Sabbath, when it was falsely changed from Saturday by Constantine?
     
  4. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Babylon, Assyria and Persia also had the Sabbath long before there were any Jews.

    I think Christians celebrate the resurrection and so worship on Sunday. Do you think its a big deal?
     
  5. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    The Sabbath does go back to creation. And the 7th day the only occurrence of the word 'holy' in the book of Genesis.

    'Holy' in the psalms what's most important to god
     
  6. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Perhaps.. Many of the Psalms were Ugarit poems borrowed from the North Coast Canaanites.. Predating the Jews by a thousand years.
     
  7. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Ugarit and the Bible

    1. Introduction.

    The ancient Canaanite city-state of Ugarit is of utmost importance for those who study the Old Testament. The literature of the city and the theology contained therein go a very long way in helping us to understand the meaning of various Biblical passages as well as aiding us in deciphering difficult Hebrew words. Ugarit was at its political, religious and economic height around the 12th century BCE and thus its period of greatness corresponds with the entry of Israel into Canaan.

    Why should people interested in the Old Testament want to know about this city and its inhabitants? Simply because when we listen to their voices we hear echoes of the Old Testament itself. Several of the Psalms were simply adapted from Ugaritic sources; the story of the flood has a near mirror image in Ugaritic literature; and the language of the Bible is greatly illuminated by the language of Ugarit. For instance, look at M. Dahood s brilliant commentary on the Psalms in the Anchor Bible series for the necessity of Ugaritic for accurate Biblical exegesis. (N.B., for a more thorough discussion of the language of Ugarit, the student is advised to take the course titled Ugaritic Grammar offered by this institution).

    In short, when one has well in hand the literature and theology of Ugarit, one is well on the way to being able to comprehend some of the most important ideas contained in the Old Testament. For this reason it is worthwhile that we pursue this topic.

    2. The Discovery of Ugarit and the Ugaritic Texts.

    In 1928 a group of French archaeologists journeyed with 7 camels, one donkey, and some burden bearers towards the tel known as Ras Shamra. After a week at the site they discovered a cemetery 150 meters from the Mediterranean Sea. In the graves they discovered Egyptian and Phoenician artwork and alabaster. They also found some Mycenean and Cypriot materials.

    After the discovery of the cemetery they found a city and a royal palace about 1000 meters from the sea on a tel 18 meters high. The tel was called by the locals Ras Shamra which means fennel hill . There also Egyptian artifacts were discovered and dated to the 2nd millennium BCE.

    The greatest discovery made at the site was a collection of tablets carved with (a then) unknown cuneiform script. In 1932 the identification of the site was made when some of the tablets were deciphered; the city was the ancient and famous site of Ugarit.

    Ugarit experienced a very long history. A city was built on the site in the Neolithic period around 6000 BCE. The oldest written evidence of the city is found in some texts from the nearby city of Ebla written around 1800 BCE. At that time both Ebla and Ugarit were under Egyptian hegemony, which shows that the long arm of Egypt extended all along the west coast of the Mediterranean Sea (for Ugarit is located in modern day Syria roughly dead east of the NE coast of Cyprus on the coast of Syria). The population of Ugarit at that time was roughly 7635 people. The city of Ugarit continued to be dominated by the Egyptians through 1400 BCE.

    continued

    Quartz Hill School of Theology
     
  8. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    From a Christian point of view, it is not insignificant that Psalm 24 is 'a psalm to be read on the first day of the week - aka Sunday' and grouped with Psalm 22, 23, 24 which are taken by Christians as portraits of the Messiah

    Be that as it may... I think it's important to be charitable and generous with other views and respect people for things that are a matter of conscience where there are honest disagreements in good conscience
     
  9. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    see Psalms: Psalm for the First Day of the Week – Psalm 24 – Sunday

    quote
    According to post-Exilic tradition, Psalm 24 was chosen for the first day of the week because of it’s relation to the first day of Creation. All the earth belongs to YAH because He created it, and everything in it.
    unquote
     
  10. reddogs

    reddogs Active Member

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    Nowhere in the Bible is there any other day given, other than Sabbath on the seventh day. Take a look at what the Catholic church and leaders have to say about Sunday observance..

    "All of us believe many things in regard to religion that we do not find in the Bible. For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the apostles changed [the day] from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath Day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the Church outside the Bible."-- "To Tell You The Truth," The Catholic Virginian, 22, October 3, 1947, p. 9.

    "Is there no express commandment for the observance of the first day of the week as a Sabbath, instead of the seventh day?
    "None whatever. Neither Christ nor His apostles nor the first Christians celebrated [observed] the first day of the week, instead of the seventh as the Sabbath." --New York Weekly Tribune [Roman Catholic], May 24, 1900.

    "Some non-Catholics object to Purgatory because there is no specific mention of it in Scripture. There is no specific mention of the word Sunday in Scripture [either]. The Sabbath is mentioned, but Sabbath means [a keeping of] Saturday. Yet the Christians of almost all denominations worship on Sunday not on Saturday. The Jews observe Saturday. Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that worship should be changed from Saturday to Sunday."--Martin J. Scott, Things Catholics are Asked About, 1927, p. 236 [Scott (1865-1954) was a Jesuit theologian and one of the foremost Catholic defenders of his time].

    "Is not every Christian obliged to sanctify Sunday and to abstain on that day from unnecessary servile work? Is not the observance of this law among the most prominent of our sacred duties? But you may search the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify."--James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers, 92nd ed., rev., p. 89 [Cardinal Gibbons (1834-1921) was archbishop of Baltimore. This book was the most famous Catholic book in America a hundred years ago].

    "The Israelite respects the authority of the Old Testament only, but the Adventist who is a Christian, accepts the New Testament on the same ground as the Old, viz.: an inspired record also. He finds that the Bible, his teacher is consistent in both parts; that the Redeemer, during His mortal life, never kept any other day than Saturday. The Gospels plainly evince to him this fact; while in the pages of the Acts of the Apostles, the Epistles and the Apocalypse [Revelation], not the vestige of an act canceling the Saturday arrangement [seventh-day Sabbathkeeping] can be found. The Christian Sabbath, 2nd ed., The Catholic Mirror, 1893, p. 31.

    "The Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. In this matter the Seventh-day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant."--The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, p. 4 [This is the political weekly newspaper at the Cleveland Catholic Diocese].

    ''Reason and sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or Catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible.'' John Cardinal Gibbons, The Catholic Mirror, December 23, 1893.


    "Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act . . . AND THE ACT IS A MARK of her ecclesiastical power."--from the office of Cardinal Gibbons, through Chancellor H.F. Thomas, November 11, 1895....Catholic
     
  11. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    I will respect people's conscience about what day or days they worship on
    and ultimately faith in Christ is the most ultimate Sabbath' I don't see the Saturday Sunday issue as 'gospel primary' and neither the word Sabbath or Lord's day appears in any epistle in the New Testament.

    I would still say Jesus first appearing on Sunday (twice) to the apostles, the Holy Spirit coming on Sunday at Pentecost, the only named communion service being on Sunday (in acts), offering taken on Sunday and John receiving the book of Revelation on 'the Lord's day' warrants the view that there is a new testament 'Lord's day' on Sunday

    And by Jewish tradition Psalm 24 a song really about Jesus was read in the temple on the first day of the week!!! aka Sunday - which seems prophetic to me but that is something I mostly just like
     
    #11 whirlingmerc, Apr 20, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
  12. reddogs

    reddogs Active Member

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    Yet Christ never changed the day, neither did the disciples and in fact Christ warned of the coming destruction of Jerusalem and said:
    Matthew 24:20
    But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
     
  13. reddogs

    reddogs Active Member

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    So why is Sunday not called the "Sabbath", because it is just the first day of the week nothing else.
     
  14. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    ment. It was Zimmern in 1904, in the "Zeitschrift der Deutschen Morgenlandischen Gesellschaft", who first suggested in print that the Sabbath was originally the day of the full moon. Mein- hold followed him in 1905 with a more elaborate treatment of the thesis, Sabbat und Woche im A. T., and again in 1909 in the "Zeitschrift fur Alttestamentliche Wissenschaft". The hypothesis has been accepted by Beer (Sabbath: Der Mishna- tractat Sabbat) and by Marti (Geschichte der Israelitischen Religion, etc.), but has not received the consideration from English-speaking scholars, I believe, that is its due.
    Sabbath in Babylonia
    The origin of the Sabbath is certainly not to be found with the Hebrews themselves. Ultimately it is “to be traced back
    201
    202 JOURNAL OF BIBLICAL LITERATURE

    to those nomadic ancestors of the Hebrews and the Canaanites, who paid chief homage to the moon, whose benign light guided them in their night journeys over the plains of northern Arabia" (Kent, Israel's Laws and Legal Precedents, p. 257).

    The Sabbath most probably harks back to the remotest Semitic antiquity and like taboo, sacrifice, ancestor-worship and the like, was evidently an institution shared by all. The name, Sabbath, first appears in Babylonia and as an in- stitution may, in fact, be traced back to the early pre-Semitic inhabitants of that land, the Sumerians.

    In a bilingual tablet, K. 6012 + K. 10684, containing a list of the days of the month, the equation U-XV-KAMI = sa-bat-ti (line 13) appears, i. e. the 15th day of the month was known in Babylonia as the sabattu, and further, it is the only one of the month that is so named (see Pinches, PSBA, 1904, pp. 51 ff.). Now the Babylonian month was a lunar month of approximately 30 days and the 15th day, or the middle of the month, would be the day of the full moon. We would infer, then, that the sabattu was identical with the day of the full moon and with it alone.

    This is further suggested by all the references to the Sabbath in Babylonian literature that are at present known. In another bilingual text, C. T. XII 6, 24, we have the equation U (Sumerian for "day") = sa-bat-tu, i. e. the Sabbath was to the Babylonians "the day par excellence, one of the great festival days of the month.

    In the Creation Story, Tablet V 18, the signs, XXXXX are evidently, with Pinches and Zimmern, to be read sa-bat-tu, instead of [um]u XIV-tu as formerly. The usual determinative after numerals in this tablet, as elsewhere, is kam not tu (cf. Creation Story, Tablet V 17, VII-kam; Gilgames Epic, Tablet X col. 111 49, umu XV-kam; etc.). With this restoration line 18 would read: "On the [Sa]bbath thou (the moon) shalt be equal (in both) halves".

    Likewise in the Gilgames Epic, Tablet X col. III 49 the 15th day or the Sabbath is evidently the day of the full moon. The sabattu was not a day of rest, on which work was pro- hibited, for many contract tablets are dated on that day (Kuchler, Die Christliche Welt, 1904, p. 296; Johns, Expositor, Nov. 1906; Wilson, Princeton Theological Review, 1903, p. 246). In C. T.

    continued

    https://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/te.../02-Exodus/Text/Articles/Meek-Sabbath-JBL.pdf
     
  15. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    Why do you think Sunday should be called the Sabbath, when it is not the seventh day or the Sabbath?
     
  16. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    The origin of the Sabbath is certainly not to be found with the Hebrews themselves. Ultimately it is “to be traced back to those nomadic ancestors of the Hebrews and the Canaanites, who paid chief homage to the moon, whose benign light guided them in their night journeys over the plains of northern Arabia" (Kent, Israel's Laws and Legal Precedents, p. 257).
     
  17. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    ***Mod: Thread locked. Its against dir rules to start debates in threads or to bash other religious groups in Dirs. The last paragraph in the OP is a debate challenge according to rules. Also most of the respondents in the thread should not be here. Lets keep the debate in debate areas, so that people can feel free to simply state their opinions unchallenged in non-debate areas. Part of that is not accusing other groups in Dir areas. Thanks, everyone. Feel free to restart the argument in a debate area.***
     
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