The Sabbath and the death penalty

[FearGod]

According to Judaism if i ain't mistaken those who break the Sabbath should be stoned to death.

Jesus worked against this law and i think today the law isn't in use anymore.

Do you think such law make any sense and was Jesus right to fight the pharisees and their awful deeds ?

 

[rosends]

The initial position asserted is a gross misstatement of Jewish law.

According to Rabbinic Judaism, at certain times, in certain situations, certain behaviors might lead to one's being punished and that punishment might include a death penalty.

The gospel accounts do not conform to the various strictures of the application of Jewish law and therefore attest to the inaccuracy of the underlying text.

 

[leibowde84]

According to Judaism if i ain't mistaken those who break the Sabbath should be stoned to death.

Jesus worked against this law and i think today the law isn't in use anymore.

Do you think such law make any sense and was Jesus right to fight the pharisees and their awful deeds ?

I actually just learned quite a bit about this in a private forum. Although the rule is technically still in existence, it is not enforced in modern times. Further, the rule is not nearly as simple as that. In order to justify death, there is a plethora of other requirements that must be fulfilled. And, no Rabbi is going to carry out the punishment because that, in and of itself, is sinful.

I admit, it seems pretty convoluted, but the important part is that Jews must honor Shabbat. No one is going to kill you if you don't, but, in the Jewish tradition, it is extremely important to follow all of the commandments.

 

[metis]

The initial position asserted is a gross misstatement of Jewish law.

According to Rabbinic Judaism, at certain times, in certain situations, certain behaviors might lead to one's being punished and that punishment might include a death penalty.

The gospel accounts do not conform to the various strictures of the application of Jewish law and therefore attest to the inaccuracy of the underlying text.

And we can add to that the Talmudic statement that if there's more than one execution every seven years in all of Israel, then the courts are being overly brutal.

 

[Tumah]

I actually just learned quite a bit about this in a private forum. Although the rule is technically still in existence, it is not enforced in modern times. Further, the rule is not nearly as simple as that. In order to justify death, there is a plethora of other requirements that must be fulfilled. And, no Rabbi is going to carry out the punishment because that, in and of itself, is sinful.

I admit, it seems pretty convoluted, but the important part is that Jews must honor Shabbat. No one is going to kill you if you don't, but, in the Jewish tradition, it is extremely important to follow all of the commandments.

I've never heard that it was a sin to carry out the punishment of one who is sentenced of it. Only its impossible today to receive such a sentence, therefore no one is ever deserving of it. It's like putting someone in jail without a trial. Until the sentence he is not deserving of punishment.
Unless you meant that it is a sin to kill a person who desecrates the Sabbath without a trial. In that case, yes, its called murder.

 

[leibowde84]

I've never heard that it was a sin to carry out the punishment of one who is sentenced of it. Only its impossible today to receive such a sentence, therefore no one is ever deserving of it. It's like putting someone in jail without a trial. Until the sentence he is not deserving of punishment.
Unless you meant that it is a sin to kill a person who desecrates the Sabbath without a trial. In that case, yes, its called murder.

The latter is what I meant.

 

[Jumi]

And we can add to that the Talmudic statement that if there's more than one execution every seven years in all of Israel, then the courts are being overly brutal.

Where can we read this statement?

 

[Tumah]

Where can we read this statement?

In the Talmud Tractate Makkoth 7a

סנהדרין ההורגת אחד בשבוע נקראת חבלנית רבי אלעזר בן עזריה אומר אחד לשבעים שנה רבי טרפון ורבי עקיבא אומרים אלו היינו בסנהדרין לא נהרג אדם מעולם רבן שמעון בן גמליאל אומר אף הן מרבין שופכי דמים בישראל​

A Sanhedrin (Supreme Court) that kills once in seven years is called "destructive". Rabbi Eliezer said [even] once in seventy years. Rabbi Tarfon and Rabbi Akiva said, "if we would have been in the Sanhedrin (they were not around before it was dispersed), a person would never be killed." Rabbi Simon ben Gamliel said, "they would also increase murderers in Israel".

 

[FearGod]

Where can we read this statement?

Doesn't make sense even if it exists?

 

[Tumah]

Doesn't make sense even if it exists?

This statement is a little odd, considering I just post the full source 7 minutes before you.

 

[Jumi]

I think it's an interesting quote, thanks for providing it Tumah.

 

[FearGod]

This statement is a little odd, considering I just post the full source 7 minutes before you.

Is the rabbi the author of God's laws to the Jews.
Working in Sabbath is punishable by the death penalty and the OT says so in clear words.

Exodus 35:2
Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whoever does work therein shall be put to death.

Why God needs to punish a person just for working in Saturday ? what kind of crime he did ?

 

[Tumah]

Is the rabbi the author of God's laws to the Jews.
Working in Sabbath is punishable by the death penalty and the OT says so in clear words.

Don't worry. We got it all worked out.

Exodus 35:2
Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whoever does work therein shall be put to death.

Why God needs to punish a person just for working in Saturday ? what kind of crime he did ?

Because that's what G-d wants. The crime he did was desecrating the Sabbath, which is punishable by death.

 

[FearGod]

Don't worry. We got it all worked out.

Because that's what G-d wants. The crime he did was desecrating the Sabbath, which is punishable by death.

Does it make sense to you that God may apply such severe laws on humans ? and if God ordered us to do so then should we kill a person because of breaking the sabbath.

 

[Tumah]

Does it make sense to you that God may apply such severe laws on humans ? and if God ordered us to do so then should we kill a person because of breaking the sabbath.

This Law only applies to Jews. Not o all humans, but yes. And yes, if the circumstances provide for such.

 

[FearGod]

This Law only applies to Jews. Not o all humans, but yes. And yes, if the circumstances provide for such.

I know it's applied on Jews, but don't you think that Jesus was right for fighting this law .
What about if some ancient clerics invented such law, like some stupid muslim clerics who make new laws to kill a person for tearing the quran or if one chose to abandon his own religion, it isn't shameful to admit that there are some mistakes in our religions and we should be brave enough to admit that they existed and may still do exist, my point from the thread is just to point out that Jesus was right and any sane person i think should agree on that.

 

[Tumah]

I know it's applied on Jews, but don't you think that Jesus was right for fighting this law .
What about if some ancient clerics invented such law, like some stupid muslim clerics who make new laws to kill a person for tearing the quran or if one chose to abandon his own religion, it isn't shameful to admit that there are some mistakes in our religions and we should be brave enough to admit that they existed and may still do exist, my point from the thread is just to point out that Jesus was right and any sane person i think should agree on that.

I don't think that Jesus was right for fighting this Law, because I know what it is about and it is very important.
I don't have a problem with Muslims killing their own people. If that's your laws and your people want to follow them, more power to them. But if your law means that I am going to get killed. I am not part of your religion. There is no reason that I should be bound by your laws.

 

[FearGod]

I don't think that Jesus was right for fighting this Law, because I know what it is about and it is very important.
I don't have a problem with Muslims killing their own people. If that's your laws and your people want to follow them, more power to them. But if your law means that I am going to get killed. I am not part of your religion. There is no reason that I should be bound by your laws.

Why do you think that the law was important and why do you think it isn't needed to be applied nowadays ?

 

[rosends]

Why do you think that the law was important and why do you think it isn't needed to be applied nowadays ?

The law is important because it stresses particular adherence to a divine commandment and therefore a divine power. Nowadays, it does need to be applied but, as Tumah wrote, "its impossible today to receive such a sentence, therefore no one is ever deserving of it."

 

[Tumah]

Why do you think that the law was important and why do you think it isn't needed to be applied nowadays ?

You don't need to know why its important.
It isn't applied nowadays because for various reasons, we don't have the framework required to apply it.