1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The Rule of Law

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by Evangelicalhumanist, Sep 22, 2019.

  1. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    4,238
    Ratings:
    +3,971
    Religion:
    None, a humanist who doesn't even worship humans
    I am so confused about the latest "whistle blower" episode currently being fought out in the US. But I'm not confused at all about the efforts by the President's legal team in NY to try to get judicial agreement that POTUS cannot be indicted or even investigated. This is more fundamental than just about anything.

    Tell me, Americans, are you really hoping that you democracy will be destroyed? From where I sit, it's hard to suppose otherwise.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  2. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    12,856
    Ratings:
    +4,883
    Religion:
    Atheist Libertarian
    I agree we shouldn't indict a POTUS. We have the impeachment process according to our constitution.


    Investigation, the problem is not investigation, the problem is congress, or congress' lack of responsibility when comes to investigations which can be used politically. Because congress has shown that it can't be discrete in it's investigations, every politician has to vet any information before it can be released, since it's likely any information released to the congress will become public knowledge and sound bited to to makes one's opponents to look as bad as possible.

    As far as democracy, we have a voting process to place politicians in office. We can put criminals into office if we choose to. Whoever wins, wins. There is only a few restriction on who can be president in the US. Criminality, criminal history, criminal acts isn't a factor in that.

    What I don't understand is this presumed threat to democracy. How is democracy being threatened unless folks go outside of the process of impeachment to remove a sitting president?
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    11,820
    Ratings:
    +4,157
    Religion:
    Philosophical Taoist/Christian
    Selfishness has now usurped reason, here in the U.S.,. We just want everything our own way and if we aren't getting it we want to tear the place apart. Trump is a reflection of this. He is the mascot for abject greed and selfishness. Which is the "platform" of the republican party (and the secret agenda of many of the democrats). The U.S. is being swallowed up by it's own greed and ignorance running amok. And beware, because most of the rest of the modern world seems determined to follow us in this.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Guitar's Cry

    Guitar's Cry Verisimilitudinous

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2006
    Messages:
    12,042
    Ratings:
    +1,768
    Religion:
    Panreligious mystical paganism
    There are a few things to consider:

    The President is head of the world's most powerful military. Depending on the crimes involved, this could lead to dangerous or seriously immoral situations.

    The President is a role model, as any leader is, and should be selected as such.

    Criminals are often not allowed to vote. This is hypocritical for a democracy.

    It is true that "whoever wins, wins." At the same time, leaders can be stripped of that right. It's why there are votes of no confidence, and in this case, impeachment.

    Having a criminal as head of a major branch of government can dangerously undermine democracy, if that criminal behavior is related to voting fraud, silencing political opponents, or anything else that impedes voting.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    12,856
    Ratings:
    +4,883
    Religion:
    Atheist Libertarian
    Sure, just agreeing there already is a process in place to remove the POTUS.
     
  6. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    28,980
    Ratings:
    +12,251
    Religion:
    Catholic-- liberal & ecumenical
    The reality is that the Constitution gives Congress the oversight of the Executive Branch, therefore they have the full legal right of subpoena of both witnesses and documents. The fact that Trump is doing everything in his power to stop these investigations is unconstitutional in and of itself, and this very much has led to a serious constitutional crisis that could get far worse down the line.

    We are either a nation of laws or we're not, and Trump is acting the way autocrats want to rule with no obstacles in their way, including the "rule of law" itself. This is not a game-- it's extremely serious, and we'd better treat it as such. .
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    12,856
    Ratings:
    +4,883
    Religion:
    Atheist Libertarian
    Sure, the the game has changed however. For what I've read Trump isn't saying no, just vetting the info first.
     
  8. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    28,980
    Ratings:
    +12,251
    Religion:
    Catholic-- liberal & ecumenical
    He has no right under the Constitution to say "no", with the sole exception of "executive privilege", which in and of itself is defined, thus limited, by the law. And he repeatedly has violated the law even on that.
     
  9. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    151,320
    Ratings:
    +42,886
    Religion:
    Bokononism
    I offer a money back guarantee that democracy will survive Trump.
     
  10. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    4,238
    Ratings:
    +3,971
    Religion:
    None, a humanist who doesn't even worship humans
    Mussolini and Hitler were both elected democratically...at first.
     
  11. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    151,320
    Ratings:
    +42,886
    Religion:
    Bokononism
    Ugh....you're going to frighten the Hillaryites into thinking Trump is Hitler again.
     
  12. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    21,569
    Ratings:
    +9,330
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    We have the trappings of a democracy -- debates, discussion, voting -- but if our elected officials pay no attention to the will of the people and, instead, pander to corporate interests, do we really have a democracy?
    Major Study Finds The US Is An Oligarchy
     
  13. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    11,820
    Ratings:
    +4,157
    Religion:
    Philosophical Taoist/Christian
    Democracy is already dead in the U.S.,. We are full on plutocracy, now. We're just too stupid, collectively, to realize it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Guitar's Cry

    Guitar's Cry Verisimilitudinous

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2006
    Messages:
    12,042
    Ratings:
    +1,768
    Religion:
    Panreligious mystical paganism
    I wouldn't trumpet such hillaryus concerns cause it's liable to raise a fuehrer.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Creative Creative x 1
  15. tigrers2019

    tigrers2019 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2019
    Messages:
    74
    Ratings:
    +26
    Religion:
    Christian
    The reason that the Republicans in the Senate are doing nothing but keeping their congressional seats warm while McConnell appoints Russia-friendly judges, and the Democrats pour out nightly verbal complaints (but take no action) is because this country's adversaries have blackmailed each politician.

    The proof of this cannot be more obvious.
    The evidence is beginning to become mountainous.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Guitar's Cry

    Guitar's Cry Verisimilitudinous

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2006
    Messages:
    12,042
    Ratings:
    +1,768
    Religion:
    Panreligious mystical paganism
    Intriguing! Can you provide evidence for this?
     
  17. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Messages:
    9,627
    Ratings:
    +2,714
    Religion:
    Theistic Rationalist-Christian
    Trudeau was too, even after he paraded around in black face on several different occasions......HITLER alert!
     
Loading...