The rise of Polish nationalism and the fight against collectivism

[dfnj]

A polish friend of mine gave me a link to the following video:

It is a teary eyed reflection of the power of nationalism, the fight against communism and collectivism, and pride the Polish people have in their national spirit. The reference to the German false-flag attack in the 37th minute is interesting.

Here is a more even tone reporting on the 100 year march:

https://www.politico.eu/article/huge-march-celebrates-polish-independence/

Here are some quotes from the article:

"Long live Poland. Long live a free, sovereign republic," Duda said as the march began.

That element was visible on Sunday as well. The green banners of the fascist National Radical Camp fluttered near the head of the march, and ultra-nationalists from Italy, Hungary, Slovakia and other countries were also present. Many people fired off illegal flares, and there were frequent football chants.

A much smaller group of leftists and anti-fascists held a separate march — screened from the main event by large numbers of police.

However, the vast majority of the crowd waving Polish flags were ordinary people celebrating a significant anniversary.

"It's a great day," said Katarzyna Łagowska, who had driven 400 kilometers from Cieszyn on the Czech border with her husband and four small children to take part in the march. "We can't end the divisions in one day, but everyone is celebrating — no matter what their political views."

My friend is a libertarian and extremely anti-communist. Many times when we argue about philosophies in government he often expresses the view how he's very much against the welfare state. Although I respect his opinion, and I do appreciate his hatred of the communist leadership in power in Poland, and his way of thinking has been gaining political traction in Poland, here is my response to him after one of his anti-welfare state tirades. I don't think he hears what I am saying as much I as I hear what he is saying:

It's funny how people see everything through one dimension. In Poland they are fighting the left because for so many years leftist leaders were horrific to the people. I don't think corruption in government is something that only occurs on the left. Power corrupts. It has nothing to do with political spectrum. Regardless of what type of government you have, power will corrupt and corruption can make people's lives miserable.

In America, my country, people have just as much freedom if not more than Poland. The people in America are free. Especially the people in power. The American people in power are free to pass many laws creating cartels and monopolies because that is what the American people are paying for through the influence of lobbyists. In America all our BIG money free-markets have been shut-down by special interests looking to make a killing by rigging the system.

The video says the people in Poland are very happy. Let's see how happy the people of Poland are with laissez faire capitalism 30 or 50 years from now.

Maybe the people of Poland will figure out a way to prevent their country's elites from rigging the system. Good luck with that! The people in power loath the common man. Power corrupts absolutely. People in power lose all morality when they are drunk with power. This is why the leaders of the communist party failed.

Until this fatal flaw in human nature is elevated to the point of common recognition NOTHING will change. Right wing, left wing, it doesn't matter. Poverty kills whether it is poverty of spirit or poverty of material wealth.

 

[Altfish]

Do these people not study history?

So sad.

 

[Cooky]

Do these people not study history?

So sad.

The Poles have always been a collective people. A great number of Poles who migrated here to the U.S. in the early 1900's actually ended up migrating back to Poland.

Those who did remain stuck together in Polish communities.

 

[Woberts]

People in power lose all morality when they are drunk with power. This is why the leaders of the communist party failed.

Um, no.

 

[Cooky]

...There is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Estro Felino]

Do these people not study history?

So sad.

In the meantime the entire Slavic world reproaches us Italians for not being nationalists enough

 

[Altfish]

In the meantime the entire Slavic world reproaches us Italians for not being nationalists enough

A slight exaggeration me thinks. Let me rephrase..."The Nationalists in the Slavic World reproach Italians for not being as mad as them"

 

[Woberts]

A slight exaggeration me thinks. Let me rephrase..."The Nationalists in the Slavic World reproach Italians for not being as mad as them"

To be fair, a lot of slavics are nationalist. I wouldn't say all of them, though.

 

[Woberts]

...There is nothing wrong with that.

There is something wrong with spreading falsehoods, however.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Neo-Fascism and neo-Nazism are huge problems in Eastern Europe. They went from one extreme to the other. It's very strange since Fascism and Nazism killed millions of Slavs and the Slavs did the most to defeat it. They have forgotten history and lost their minds.

 

[Stevicus]

My friend is a libertarian and extremely anti-communist. Many times when we argue about philosophies in government he often expresses the view how he's very much against the welfare state. Although I respect his opinion, and I do appreciate his hatred of the communist leadership in power in Poland, and his way of thinking has been gaining political traction in Poland, here is my response to him after one of his anti-welfare state tirades. I don't think he hears what I am saying as much I as I hear what he is saying:

It's funny how people see everything through one dimension. In Poland they are fighting the left because for so many years leftist leaders were horrific to the people. I don't think corruption in government is something that only occurs on the left. Power corrupts. It has nothing to do with political spectrum. Regardless of what type of government you have, power will corrupt and corruption can make people's lives miserable.

In America, my country, people have just as much freedom if not more than Poland. The people in America are free. Especially the people in power. The American people in power are free to pass many laws creating cartels and monopolies because that is what the American people are paying for through the influence of lobbyists. In America all our BIG money free-markets have been shut-down by special interests looking to make a killing by rigging the system.

The video says the people in Poland are very happy. Let's see how happy the people of Poland are with laissez faire capitalism 30 or 50 years from now.

Maybe the people of Poland will figure out a way to prevent their country's elites from rigging the system. Good luck with that! The people in power loath the common man. Power corrupts absolutely. People in power lose all morality when they are drunk with power. This is why the leaders of the communist party failed.

Until this fatal flaw in human nature is elevated to the point of common recognition NOTHING will change. Right wing, left wing, it doesn't matter. Poverty kills whether it is poverty of spirit or poverty of material wealth.

What I find ironic about the typical anti-communist ideologues I encounter is that they're often against the very things which prevented the spread of communism in the West, such as welfare programs, support of strong labor unions, wage/price/rent controls, minimum wage laws, increased access to healthcare, education, etc.

As for Poland, their situation was more tragic due to the bad luck of geography and being sandwiched between two major powers like Germany and Russia (Austria also had their hooks in Poland as well). As a result, Poland became more of a battleground than anything else - a territory which both sides wanted to use as a buffer against the other. A tragic situation for the Poles, to be sure, but not something that can be blamed on any particular economic system.

If anything, it was monarchism and imperialism to blame, with Germany, Russia, and Austria wanting to expand the size of their empires. (Napoleon also loused things up for the Poles, as his invasion of Russia and subsequent loss ended up with Poland losing any semblance of independence.) By the time the fascists and communists rose to power, they merely inherited the same geopolitical aspirations as their monarchist predecessors.

Another ironic historical tidbit was that, if it wasn't for the Bolshevik Revolution and Russia's subsequent withdrawal from WW1, Poland might not have even become independent in 1918. If Russia had remained in the war, they would have been a full Ally and partner at Versailles, with enough standing and prestige to be able to veto Polish independence and keep them within their empire (as well as the likelihood of Russia gaining some Turkish territory, particularly Constantinople, the Bosporus and Dardanelles). But because of the Bolshevik withdrawal and their yielding to German demands at Brest-Litovsk, they had no diplomatic standing at Versailles, and the Western powers were all in favor of Polish independence (as well as Czechoslovakian independence).

Another problematic situation developed due to the Locarno treaty, which solidified the terms of Versailles in terms of setting the actual border between Germany and its western neighbors - namely Germany's accession to France retaking control of Alsace-Lorraine. But when it came to Germany's eastern borders with Poland or Czechoslovakia, they didn't really settle that issue. If they didn't leave that loose end, it might have made it all the more difficult for Germany to justify invading Czechoslovakia or Poland. Locarno revealed some of the confusion and cross purposes at work among the Western Allied leadership, and there was obvious concern about the rise of the Bolsheviks in Russia and what that could mean for (western) European security.

Some say that the Western Allies betrayed Poland, or at least just left them hanging out there. Of course, it's understandable that, due to geography and logistics, there probably wasn't much the Western Allies could have done to help defend or liberate Poland from Nazi occupation. Moreover, there wasn't much they could do in terms of the Soviet Union liberating Poland and the consequences which followed. It was in their occupation zone, agreed to by the Allies. By the same agreement, the occupying powers were to allow for free elections, and at least the illusion of "independence."

I can sort of understand the rationale from the Soviet side, though, in that they were invaded and suffered horribly by would-be conquerors from the West - and they considered the best way of preventing such occurrences in the future was to create a buffer zone between their country and any potentially hostile powers which may attack. Again, that put Poland and other Eastern European nations in a bad spot - and it created an uneasy situation throughout the rest of Europe and the world as a whole.

But once the Cold War was over, the Soviets withdrew their forces and pretty much dissolved themselves. It was kind of fascinating to watch, in a way, but the upshot of the whole thing was that Poland and the remaining Eastern European countries found a new freedom. That's good for them, especially to no longer be ruled by a foreign power. Whether they choose laissez-faire capitalism or a mixed economy or something at the more socialist end of the spectrum - that's up to the voters - just like it is here in the U.S.

When it comes to national independence and sovereignty - these are things that everyone wants. On the other hand, I've always felt that economic systems should be more flexible and practical depending on the circumstances. The main trouble with capitalists is that they seem to view capitalism as some kind of religion, with a comparable amount of zeal and fervor. A lot of communists made the same mistake.